Fixed broadhead tuning - longer distance

[nubraskan]

I heard some claims that some people are able to be successful at broadhead tuning at longer distances, so I decided to give it a shot. Generally I would get my bow paper tuned, then bareshaft tuned at 20, then dialed the broadhead at 30 (which generally didn't take much if any rest adjustment after the bareshaft).

This time I did the usual bareshaft to 20, then went immediately to broadhead tuning at 70 yards (Micro hades 100gr). They were hitting ~8" low right off the bat and it took a lot of vertical rest adjustment to have them hitting with the field points. Out of morbid curiosity, I launched a bareshaft at 70 yards and it sailed over the target absurdly high. For some more testing, I backed up to 100 and the broadheads are hitting quite a bit low still, about 7-9" on average.

Now the question is, is it futile trying to get my fixed broadheads tuned at 70+ yards, or am I missing something? My assumption now is that the added drag of the broadhead (especially a vented broadhead) is slowing it down enough that at extended ranges they will probably always group low.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

You're correct that a broadhead induces more drag and will hit noticeably lower than field points (even if the bow is perfectly tuned) if shot at long enough distances. Where that vertical POI difference becomes noticeable depends on broadhead size/shape and arrow speed (among other factors). If broadhead-to-field point POI difference becomes significant within your maximum effective hunting range, you'll just have to adjust your sight pins/tape to match where the broadheads are hitting.

 

[realunlucky]

In this week's Rokcast Daykota from day six gear and Bill from iron will share how they tune for broadheads-
https://www.rokslide.com/tt30-bow-tuning-with-daykota-kime-and-the-cold-bow-challenge/

Should find a couple good tips in it.

 

[nphunter]

It's not that hard to get them hitting together at long distances when conditions are perfect. Level ground, good form, good follow through, low wind. I'm getting ready for the cold bow challenge and my fixed heads easily hit the face of my 18:1 with my FP if I do my part.

I like to tune with fixed heads and I also group tune with fixed heads at long distances. I hunt with expandables because I like the damage they do better and they are more forgiving under less-than-perfect conditions, I still want my bow shooting the best it can be.

From what I've experienced, you actually have to take your bow out of tune to make FP & BH hit together at long range, essentially you need to be shooting tail low for your BH to match due to the extra drag. To me all tuning, paper, bare shaft, etc. is to achieve an acceptable final result, if that result is to have your fixed heads flying exactly like your field points then who cares about how a bare shaft shoots.

I like to group tune fixed heads so that I can shoot the tightest groups possible at longer distances with BH, I use a bow to kill stuff and my #1 priority is knowing my BH is hitting behind my pin. I never shoot a bare shaft again after getting my bow tuned how I want.

 

[wyodog]

You're correct that a broadhead induces more drag and will hit noticeably lower than field points (even if the bow is perfectly tuned) if shot at long enough distances. Where that vertical POI difference becomes noticeable depends on broadhead size/shape and arrow speed (among other factors). If broadhead-to-field point POI difference becomes significant within your maximum effective hunting range, you'll just have to adjust your sight pins/tape to match where the broadheads are hitting.

I agree with this statement. bare shafts have almost no drag compared to an arrow with fletching and Broadhead increases drag a bit more. Also, broadheads a typically longer that field points which changes the FOC. At some point downrange the higher FOC will cause the nose of the arrow to nose down more than a field point does, compound that with increased drag and the differences become noticeable at longer ranges.

 

[5MilesBack]

I typically BH tune at 60, then BH's are good at least to 60......and I've shot them as far as 90 and still been really close. Not enough off that it would make a difference for most kill shots. But I generally haven't had to shoot much past 60 anyway for hunting.

If you want to BH tune for long range, then BH tune for long range.....and stop shooting BS's and/or paper. Also, I generally set my rest with my arrow at 90 degrees from the string and then tune with cables for BH elevation adjustment.

 

[nubraskan]

I typically BH tune at 60, then BH's are good at least to 60......and I've shot them as far as 90 and still been really close. Not enough off that it would make a difference for most kill shots. But I generally haven't had to shoot much past 60 anyway for hunting.

If you want to BH tune for long range, then BH tune for long range.....and stop shooting BS's and/or paper. Also, I generally set my rest with my arrow at 90 degrees from the string and then tune with cables for BH elevation adjustment.

Generally I never touch a bareshaft once I broadhead tune, I was just curious how it would behave. I wasn't planning to change anything based on the bareshaft result at that distance. However, it did confirm that my rest position is launching a lower resistance projectile much higher than one with fletching

I probably posed my overall question poorly, but it's more into the theory of a broadhead tune at longer ranges and what makes sense in terms of a BH tuning distance.

I'll re-confirm later today, but my BH's are probably hitting higher than my FP's now at shorter ranges and then re-group with my FP's at 70, then begin dropping again at longer ranges. So essentially they aren't hitting with my FP's at my initial 30 yard BH tune. My assumption is that in order to account for the extra drag of the BH, they have to launch at a higher angle and plane up higher to account for the longer hang time / additional drop at distance. So, if I were to continue to push the distance and get the BH's hitting with FP's at 100, the BH's would be hitting significantly higher than my FP's at 70 yards and in. Obviously that isn't desirable since I likely won't be trying to take game with a fixed BH at that distance, so I am assuming I should probably move my BH tune back into a more desirable range.

 

[Beendare]

I know guys that have their BH's shooting with FP's at 70.

 

[nubraskan]

I confirmed again that my BHs are hitting with my FPs at 70. I brought everything in to 30 yards and the BHs are still grouping with FPs, so my theory was wrong that the BHs would be grouping higher as I moved closer. Maybe I'll increase the distance back to 100 and check again tomorrow

 

[MattB]

Generally I never touch a bareshaft once I broadhead tune, I was just curious how it would behave. I wasn't planning to change anything based on the bareshaft result at that distance. However, it did confirm that my rest position is launching a lower resistance projectile much higher than one with fletching.

Not at all. What you learned is that arrows with more drag (fletchings or fletching plus exposed blades) drop more over distance because they decelerate more quickly, and you are mis-attributing that added drop to your rest launching low resistance arrows higher.

 

[NYSKIER]

I usually take these steps
1. Bareshaft with field point out to 20 yards
2. Once this is good I check my broadheads which are usually on line
3. With all three in line I shoot field points with broad heads which with fixed usually fly together to 70.
4 After 70 I know by broadheads start to sink so I either A) Figure out how much higher to aim or B) dial an extra yard in my tape and I’m usually good to go out to 100

***Other step step I take after #3 is once I know everything is in line I forget shooting field points and shoot broad heads only adjusting my sight accordingly

 

[tdoublev]

Tagging on to this - I experienced the same problem myself today. I'm only a 27.0 draw, and I calculate my arrows are going roughly ~263 fps (68 lbs, 421 grains). I was tuning today with fixed blade, QAD exodus. I'm struggling to decipher some of the advice given here if they were using fixed blades or mechanicals. At 50 yards, I was really struggling to get my broadhead impact to come up. I ended up moving my rest up a good deal today, and they still weren't grouping perfect, about 1-2" low but I didn't feel comfortable going any higher because it seemed like a lot of adjustment. I then went back in to 25 yards, and my FP are now about 2-3" high of the fixed BH. Prior to today's adjustments, it was dead on.

1) With my setup, where do you guys think the inflection point is where the drag of the fixed BH is not going to match the speed of the FP? Seeing some guys on here say 60/70, but I think I'm going to be way shorter than that and also where I can't tell if people are consistently referring to fixed or mechanicals, but I'm also much slower speeds than average.

2) This is the first time I've worked on my tune since the cold bow challenge. During that challenge, I took a guess after Day 1 because I was hitting low, and just added a yard to my sight tape and it worked great. I'm leaning towards either making a mental note when hunting, or swapping out the sight tape just before hunting versus trying to chase some half good/half bad tune by overcompensating for the BH at longer distance and as a consequence also at shorter distance. Any advice on the possible pitfalls of one or the other?

 

[Zac]

Generally I never touch a bareshaft once I broadhead tune, I was just curious how it would behave. I wasn't planning to change anything based on the bareshaft result at that distance. However, it did confirm that my rest position is launching a lower resistance projectile much higher than one with fletching

I probably posed my overall question poorly, but it's more into the theory of a broadhead tune at longer ranges and what makes sense in terms of a BH tuning distance.

I'll re-confirm later today, but my BH's are probably hitting higher than my FP's now at shorter ranges and then re-group with my FP's at 70, then begin dropping again at longer ranges. So essentially they aren't hitting with my FP's at my initial 30 yard BH tune. My assumption is that in order to account for the extra drag of the BH, they have to launch at a higher angle and plane up higher to account for the longer hang time / additional drop at distance. So, if I were to continue to push the distance and get the BH's hitting with FP's at 100, the BH's would be hitting significantly higher than my FP's at 70 yards and in. Obviously that isn't desirable since I likely won't be trying to take game with a fixed BH at that distance, so I am assuming I should probably move my BH tune back into a more desirable range.

Not likely, that head you have should easily shoot with your field tips to 70 and beyond. My guess is that you are overestimating your abilities. I would go back to 30 and dial everything in the way you always have. You’re obviously chasing your tail. For most people including myself, a bare shaft at 70 doesn’t mean anything. I’m not trying to be rude you just need to pull your head out of the weeds.

 

[Zac]

Tagging on to this - I experienced the same problem myself today. I'm only a 27.0 draw, and I calculate my arrows are going roughly ~263 fps (68 lbs, 421 grains). I was tuning today with fixed blade, QAD exodus. I'm struggling to decipher some of the advice given here if they were using fixed blades or mechanicals. At 50 yards, I was really struggling to get my broadhead impact to come up. I ended up moving my rest up a good deal today, and they still weren't grouping perfect, about 1-2" low but I didn't feel comfortable going any higher because it seemed like a lot of adjustment. I then went back in to 25 yards, and my FP are now about 2-3" high of the fixed BH. Prior to today's adjustments, it was dead on.

1) With my setup, where do you guys think the inflection point is where the drag of the fixed BH is not going to match the speed of the FP? Seeing some guys on here say 60/70, but I think I'm going to be way shorter than that and also where I can't tell if people are consistently referring to fixed or mechanicals, but I'm also much slower speeds than average.

2) This is the first time I've worked on my tune since the cold bow challenge. During that challenge, I took a guess after Day 1 because I was hitting low, and just added a yard to my sight tape and it worked great. I'm leaning towards either making a mental note when hunting, or swapping out the sight tape just before hunting versus trying to chase some half good/half bad tune by overcompensating for the BH at longer distance and as a consequence also at shorter distance. Any advice on the possible pitfalls of one or the other?

With your specs I would not be shooting an Exodus. Kyle from DCA has done extensive testing with that head and said he wouldn’t trust it past 50. That thing is all blade so you’re gonna get more drag with that than almost anything else. If you want to shoot fixed go with something like the Evolution head.

 

[Ho5tile1]

With your specs the qad is a great head I used to shoot them and still have some and they will shoot as far as your ability will let you I’ve shot them out to 80 with FP with zero issues. I have a buddy who shoots them he is a 26 inch draw shooting 60 pounds and shoots them from 60 with FP zero issues. It’s not the broadhead it’s something else you or the tune of the bow. I used to do paper and bareshafts but now I just go straight to broadheads I get my bow in spec everything level the arrow 90 degrees off the string through the Berger hole 13/16ths go sight in whatever arrow I’m gonna use then right to broadheads most times it’s just a tiny adjustment of the rest. If it’s more then that I start messing with top hats and start over…good luck


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[Bergy-Bowsmith]

I want to preface this by saying I hope this helps some people tuning in the future and is by no way me saying my way is the only way, but hopefully opening some eyes to the truths of tuning a bow properly that are commonly misunderstood or misconceived.

First when it comes to the initial setup. With all the technology out there today it can be very easy to quite literally mess your way out of a tune with (set technology, deadlock, etc etc) so I want to start by saying my process is as follows regardless of the strings I use, even though I prefer to use Unbound Archery strings from Nick Dawa. Set the bow to manufacturer spec and set the nocking point through the center of the berger hole (not the top third or bottom third, center of shaft through center of berger), and set center shot on the rest to manufacturer spec (13/16, or 7/8 in most cases) from there check timing and get that dead set as needed. Then check cam lean, then I launch a bare shaft through the paper at 3 yards to start. Rotating the arrow to multiple nock positions and tuning to the best tear. This is just to gauge if I need to shim or yoke tune depending on the setup or bow manufacturer. Then tune out any vertical tear first, if you rotated the nock and tuned to the best tear this should be a minimal adjustment if any at all. Depending on the lateral tear I will either shim at this point or if the tear is good I will move back to 9 yards, at 9 yards with a bare shaft you should see any slight inconsistencies coming out in your form these adjustments are easily compensated with a slight rest adjustment or playing with form a little bit. Then Final Step is 15 yards and repeat the steps from the 9 yard mark. ( obviously, it is a little more in-depth than this in some situations, as previously mentioned this is a brief overview as a guideline not an exact).

Once I am getting perfect bare shaft flight through the paper at 3-9-15 yards I screw a broadhead on and grab some field tips and go to 60 yards (start up close first if your not sure with your tape) (Remember through this whole process I have left my set technology, or any other tuning aiders alone, and tuned the bow as if it didn't have them on it for the sole fact of keeping everything running down the center of the bow for visual aesthetics and keeping within manufacturer spec, in many cases, you can achieve a good tear outside of spec but I prefer to give myself and my customers a good tune and a visually pleasing look to their finished product. ) Once I am at 60 yards I will use any tuning aiders ( SET, deadlock, yokes) I have to adjust my broadhead impact If there is any issues. 99% of the time if you are getting a perfect bullet hole through the paper at 15 yards you are gonna be good to go without any adjustments. If you fall into that 1% where it didn't land with the family, then you will most likely have at most 1/16th adjustment or a slight, set/deadlock adjustment to get everything to play nice. Occasionally, you will need to nock tune your arrow at distance to get broadheads to play, due to inconsistencies in the shaft itself.

With this method, I have been tuning bows with fantastic results and repeatable results. I am not in any way shape or form saying this is the only way to skin a cat we can get to the same point multiple different ways. but this is the way that works great for me, especially for the sake of your time. Some people preach that paper tune is just a starting point and id argue that it is and it isn't, if you are only launching fletched shafts or bare shafts through the paper at 3-9 feet instead of 3-9-15 yards then yes it is a starting point but like I mentioned 99% of the time if you are sending them at 3-9-15 yards you are going to be theoretically dead on out to 60+ with your broadheads with very minor adjustments needed from that point forward.

When seeking advice on tuning questions in various online platforms such as forums and social media, it is common for responses to be varied and sometimes conflicting. My recommendation, though it may not always be heeded, is to establish a relationship with a reliable bow technician. By consulting with a professional, you can benefit from their expertise and personalized guidance tailored to your specific needs.

Diagnosing tuning issues involves considering numerous factors, many of which may not be adequately addressed in online discussions. Without a comprehensive understanding of your setup, equipment, and shooting style, it can be challenging to pinpoint the root cause of tuning problems. Relying solely on generalized advice from online sources may lead to a trial-and-error approach that could result in unsatisfactory outcomes and further frustration.

Therefore, investing time and effort in establishing a rapport with a trusted bow technician can significantly streamline the tuning process. Their hands-on assessment and targeted recommendations can save you from unnecessary adjustments and potential setbacks.

Ultimately, seeking professional guidance can lead to a more efficient and rewarding tuning experience, ensuring that you achieve optimal performance and satisfaction with your bow setup.


Furthermore, if anyone has any questions I would be more than happy to help you with your setup if I can over the phone, or if you feel more comfortable sending it to me you are welcome to do that too. With that happy hunting and shoot straight.



Bergy Bowsmith


This is the exact write up that i wrote a handful of months ago . this should clear up alot of questions , Ive used and tested this method over and over and over, and broadheads and fieldtips stack at 90 yards, I have this and many other write ups and pictures detailing this on many other social media sources for you to look at aswell.

 

[Dennis]

Well written and very similar to my method and results Thanks for sharing and your detail.

 

[Zac]

I agree that forums don’t usually help most of the new people. There really isn’t a way to sift through all the conflicting data.

 

[Ho5tile1]

Very true it’s very hard to know what to do starting out when one Says do this and then another says well do this and so on. The very detailed info above is how I used to do it as well. I don’t do it the same anymore at least with my current 3 hunting bows as I know them pretty dang well and know what works with them. If it was a new bow I would for sure go through the steps the first few times I put new strings on as it just works… what great right up above….


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[tdoublev]

With your specs the qad is a great head I used to shoot them and still have some and they will shoot as far as your ability will let you I’ve shot them out to 80 with FP with zero issues. I have a buddy who shoots them he is a 26 inch draw shooting 60 pounds and shoots them from 60 with FP zero issues. It’s not the broadhead it’s something else you or the tune of the bow. I used to do paper and bareshafts but now I just go straight to broadheads I get my bow in spec everything level the arrow 90 degrees off the string through the Berger hole 13/16ths go sight in whatever arrow I’m gonna use then right to broadheads most times it’s just a tiny adjustment of the rest. If it’s more then that I start messing with top hats and start over…good luck


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Appreciate that data point. I rechecked my cam timing after hearing this and they were slightly out of time. Had to add one full twist and now I am able to group my QADs with FP at 50. Feel pretty stupid in hindsight since I didn’t check this immediately but didn’t think they would have worked them selves out of time.