First timer question on boned out quarter vs. bone in

[twall13]

I personally feel think the meat quality is better if I let it go through full rigor while on the bone. It also helps to keep the meat cleaner and less exposed to air, so less loss overall in most cases. If it's really hot out, you might be better off deboning and getting things separated to cool quicker, the key there being getting things separated. If you debone and then lump everything into a giant meatball in the game bag, it will actually probably be worse for getting it cooled off than if you'd left it on the bone.

Like others have said, leaving quarters bone in does add some structure that helps with packing. I prefer that, some people prefer to ditch the weight. To me, the only real advantage to deboning in the field is to keep the pack weight down. I'd probably do it that way if I was using llamas and trying to balance pack weights for them, but in most cases I personally prefer bone in until I get home and start processing it. If you have to travel through states that won't allow bone in meat, that might be a reason for deboning, but in most cases you could still do it a day or two after the kill so it has a chance to go through rigor first.

There probably isn't a right or wrong answer here, everyone develops a way they like to do things based on their experiences. Read through the posts above and figure out what you think will work best for you and go with it.

 

[duckclay]

i almost always leave bone in unless it will save me a whole trip, which rarely is the case... i like ice aging bone in, the results are always ideal, and the less meat exposed to dirt and air, the better.

in your case, if i had to travel through states that wouldn't allow me to travel with bone in quarters, i would not pack them off the mountain, it would defeat the purpose and i wouldn't pack the extra weight in that scenario... i want as much meat recovery as possible, and bone in is the best for that... if i had to bone out, i would be setup to separate all of the meat and kind of sort it out so it's quicker to finish processing later, and would bag it all in gallon ziplocks when back to camp (probably label the bags with a sharpie), and pack in a cooler with ice and keep it that way for 4-8 days before finishing processing, that way the meat recovery would be as good as possible, and you know it's all COLD and clean

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

 

[duckclay]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you taking time to give me your input! That's the main reason I love this site.

Ok, so I want to answer a couple of things that came up.

First, the states I'm referring to are primarily in the SE (I live in Florida) The following is copied from Florida's site. The following are allowed to be imported into the state.

• De-boned meat
• Finished taxidermy mounts
• Clean hides and antlers
• Skulls, skull caps and teeth if all soft tissue has been removed

I know that Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi have similar rules.

Second, I do realize that I'll lose meat deboning in the field vs. the kitchen but may take these to the car to do this and MAYBE not lose as much.

Third, I am praying I have to worry about this problem but, if I do, I'm going to be in a Chevy Equinox ( I know that's a problem in and of itself) so hiding the antlers might not be easy.

Lastly, I've still got time to make this decision and I know the situation I find myself in will make the actual determination. With all of that said, thank you all again for your information. I take every idea, suggestion, and opinion I see hear into consideration and they're all a huge help for a guy doing this for his first time.

Take care,
Brad

 

[Gerbdog]

Does it specifically say bone in meat is disallowed? im not much of a lawyer turns out

but doesnt make sense they allow skulls but dont allow bones.... ???

 

[duckclay]

Hey Gerbdog, they're pretty specific to outlaw any bone or brain material. Anything that can harbor the prion that causes CWD is what I'm told they're worried about.

 

[Gerbdog]

Hey Gerbdog, they're pretty specific to outlaw any bone or brain material. Anything that can harbor the prion that causes CWD is what I'm told they're worried about.

Yea spose that makes sense, certainly something worth fearing too no doubt, had a friend in highschool who lost his dad to a prion in his brain. Cant make any sense in my own skull about how skull or skull plate isnt considered bone but i dont make the laws i just gotta follow them or deal with consequences.... whether i agree or not.

 

[Kurts86]

It’s a CWD regulation thing. Typically you can have a skull but they want it cleaned/boiled for it to be ok for transport across state lines and generally they want cervid meat deboned as well.

This is how the rules are written fro bringing in Cervids to TN from CWD areas. The language is nearly universal state to state.

– All meat must have been totally removed from the bone
– Antlers can only be imported if they are attached to a clean skull or skull plate with all meat removed
– Cleaned teeth (with all tissue removed)
– Completely finished taxidermy and antler products (tanned hides)

 

[duckclay]

Yea spose that makes sense, certainly something worth fearing too no doubt, had a friend in highschool who lost his dad to a prion in his brain. Cant make any sense in my own skull about how skull or skull plate isnt considered bone but i dont make the laws i just gotta follow them or deal with consequences.... whether i agree or not.

I was thinking the same thing when they first did it. My yearly trip to Mississippi for whitetail has been effected but it's not too bad. The difference is that I can hang deer to age and bone in on a table there.
And yes, the whole prion thing is a nightmare, no doubt.

 

[Seamaster]

Out of the four dozen or so elk I have taken I can only remember two that were not deboned in the field. Doing it in the field does not waste meat If it is done with care and the meat is kept clean.

The two that were not deboned in the field were the result of being lucky enough to have some big young fellows along that had never packed elk quarters before. It was a good learning experience for them.

 

[rayporter]

add arkansas to the list. game wardens have been known to sit on freeway over passes and look down into trucks for signs of hunters. you will talk mighty fast to get out of the bone in law. [not likely]

 

[roosiebull]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you taking time to give me your input! That's the main reason I love this site.

Ok, so I want to answer a couple of things that came up.

First, the states I'm referring to are primarily in the SE (I live in Florida) The following is copied from Florida's site. The following are allowed to be imported into the state.

• De-boned meat
• Finished taxidermy mounts
• Clean hides and antlers
• Skulls, skull caps and teeth if all soft tissue has been removed

I know that Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi have similar rules.

Second, I do realize that I'll lose meat deboning in the field vs. the kitchen but may take these to the car to do this and MAYBE not lose as much.

Third, I am praying I have to worry about this problem but, if I do, I'm going to be in a Chevy Equinox ( I know that's a problem in and of itself) so hiding the antlers might not be easy.

Lastly, I've still got time to make this decision and I know the situation I find myself in will make the actual determination. With all of that said, thank you all again for your information. I take every idea, suggestion, and opinion I see hear into consideration and they're all a huge help for a guy doing this for his first time.

Take care,
Brad

i hope you have that problem too!

when boning out in the woods (not sure if this has been mentioned) but taking your time and separating the muscle groups like you were taking apart a quarter at home is the best way to do it, that keeps membrane over as much meat as possible.... hacking it off the bone in chunks is a bad strategy.... probably already know that, but figured it was worth mentioning in this context

 

[Indian Summer]

As far as cooling goes….. your meat will cool. Ince you get the quarters separated cooling time will be fine. But meat intact on the bone will stay cooler.

For me it’s all about cleanliness and meat quality. I don’t care where I’m at I cowboy up and pack my quarters bone in. Once my bull is down I’m happy and I’m not looking for the easy way out. I strap that sucker on and start putting one foot in front of the other. In the end you’ll be glad you did.

 

[tracker12]

it really boils down to how far the pack is and how much weight you can carry. I used to pack out bone in, then went boned now at 69 I hire someone or bring along young guys lol

 

[TraderMike]

Interesting opinions and justification for both bone-out and bone-in. I personally have been de-boning solely to facilitate cooling in warmer temps. The quality of the meat is my main concern and I believe "adequate" cooling immediately upon death is the most important contributing factor to overall quality of meat. Aside from legal transportation considerations, de-boning seems like the fastest way to bring the temperature of larger critters, like elk, down. I suppose it would be just about impossible to determine at what point meat quality starts to degrade as a result of not cooling quickly enough. I have noticed, since I began de-boning immediately, that the quality of my elk is consistently better so I err on the side of cooling ASAP. The 14''x34'' BOMB bags I use will hold a boned-out hind quarter of a typical bull. I carry a small digital thermometer in my kit to monitor the cooling progress and I don't believe leaving that large femur in the middle of a bone-in quarter could possibly cool faster than bone-out paired with smaller diameter game bags. I have not monitored the cooling process on a bone-in hind quarter though... so I could be mistaken on this point. I can say that within a few hours in t-shirt temps at 10,000 feet my temp readings from the larger muscle group portions in my meat bag are quickly approaching the 40 degree mark and by next morning, with lows in the 20's the meat is mid-30's.
A mention of preferring the meat to remain on the bone during the rigor stage is interesting. I wonder which factor is more important to overall quality of the meat; cooling immediately or rigor stage on the bone?

 

[aorams]

Bone in. Generally we leave as much intact as possible to do the butchery on a clean cool table back home. We’ve boned out also but more ends up becoming burger. Bones definitely don’t change how many trips we make either. I like to limit my pack weight to 75lbs or thereabouts and make more trips. Easier on my body. We had 285lbs of meat and bone last year and that didn’t count the head. You’d have to be a beast to do that in two trips. I’m making 4 trips whether the bone is in or out.

 

[eaglemountainman]

I know it's extra work packing out bones, but I prefer not to bone out until rigor has been accomplished.

 

[cnelk]

Man, I don’t know where all you guys are hunting that worry about getting elk meat cooled down immediately - maybe the Sahara Desert or something?

Where I hunt - 9k - 10,000’ even on a hot day it MIGHT get to 65 for a couple hours in the afternoon. And that’s in the sun.

Some nice shade, with a breeze, will cool down any meat during the day.

I’ve said it before - elk meat ain’t ice cream.

 

[philson208]

I deboned one elk before the rigor process was complete and 100% could tell the difference in meat quality. I personally prefer bone in for hanging ease and keeping the structure of the meat for pack out. If I ever bone out again, I will definitely allow time for the rigor process to complete before deboning. I think argali has/had a pretty well explanation of rigor and understanding the process but can't find it now to link. IMHO it would be worth a quick search to understand that for best results its best to allow rigor process to commence before deboning.

 

[Indian Summer]

Man, I don’t know where all you guys are hunting that worry about getting elk meat cooled down immediately - maybe the Sahara Desert or something?

Where I hunt - 9k - 10,000’ even on a hot day it MIGHT get to 65 for a couple hours in the afternoon. And that’s in the sun.

Some nice shade, with a breeze, will cool down any meat during the day.

I’ve said it before - elk meat ain’t ice cream.

Ditto! Will it cool faster off the bone? Yes. Does it cool fast enough on the bone? Yes definitely. You’re not laying it flat on the ground in the sun like a woman at the beach right! Get it in the shade and hang it or at least lean quarters heavy side up against the trunk of a tree and you’ll be fine. Hell we do that with the hide still on! Never had a problem. Get it cut free from the elk and get it off the ground…. Bottom line.

 

[Indian Summer]

And something else to think about… once the meat is cooled down which is better? What melts faster a bag of ice cubes (bones out meat) or a block of ice (unboned quarter)?

AND… regardless of that everything stays cooler in a cooler… hide on! An unboned quarter with the hide on will stay cold through the heat of the day better than any boned or skinned meat. And you know that your meat isn’t getting one bit of dirt hair or bacteria on it. Nature’s game bag! My quarters stay like that until they hit base camp. Then I hang them, skin them, remove EVERY single piece of dirt/hair and slip a game bag over them for transport to home or the processor. Bomb proof!