First time layering - it went... ok

[Wolfshead]

I have to agree that this is a personal thing.
I believe that we all have to fine tune our “kit”

I’ve found in my situation that the softshell/synthetics don’t keep me warm.
I had a Kuiu softshell jacket in XL, and if I was using to hunt for any period of time I would get cold. Even around 30 degrees. It did well cutting wind, and all, but once it got cold, that cold just penetrated.
The jacket would get cold, and leech through my base layers.
So I bought an XXL, and added a strong fleece 280 hoodie, and it was the same situation, the cold just came through.
Ive never hunted out west or that style. I’m a still hunter who occasionally hunts from a stand, probably similar to you.
I hunt in the flatlands and some hilly areas so I’ve been in some minor elevation compared to out west.
So, I wear a lot of wool clothes, and if I’m stand hunting my parka and bibs, over my wool.
Still hunting I can cover anywhere from 2-6 miles in a day, and I’ve never found my wool to be too heavy for doing that.
I have a couple pair of the Kuiu attack pants and I find them noisy and not warm.

I know what I do will not necessarily equate to your western hunting situation, but I usually wear this;
Top
Kuiu ultra merino 125 T shirt
Kuiu ultra merino 145 1/4 zip
Kuiu Pro merino 200 1/4 zip
Then when down below 35-40 degrees I’ll add either my proximity vest, and/or my Johnson woolen mills 1842 Jac shirt.

Bottoms
Ultra merino 160 bottoms (long John’s)
If it gets really cold I’ll add another pair of bottoms to this
Big Bills merino wool pants.

Again if I’m sitting I have a parka and bibs to put on over what I’ve described.

 

[srr5008]

I’ve found in my situation that the softshell/synthetics don’t keep me warm.
I had a Kuiu softshell jacket in XL, and if I was using to hunt for any period of time I would get cold. Even around 30 degrees. It did well cutting wind, and all, but once it got cold, that cold just penetrated.
The jacket would get cold, and leech through my base layers.
So I bought an XXL, and added a strong fleece 280 hoodie, and it was the same situation, the cold just came through.

I think this right here describes my situation perfectly. Shell cut the wind, but I just felt like the cold penetrated.

 

[Rjk300]

Hunting OH and PA these last 2 weeks i had my 145 and 200 merino on, guide pant, up top same bases w 260 strong fleece mid layer, guide jacket, ultra down vest, orange guide vest. For me this was fine especially just walking and glassing but stationary only about 2 hours. If I wanted to stay warmer it would be strong fleece 290 mid layer replacing the guide pant and jacket or just going over them then if I still need more it’s pro down. I don’t feel the fleece lined guide pant and jacket do great for retaining heat but that’s why I like them, I very rarely over heat in them while active on these colder days we’ve been fortunate to have this season.

 

[summs]

I spend some money but I thinn soft shells like jet stream is a waste. I have had them and always sold. Old guy I hunt cow elk with lives in king of Mountian wool when the wind is bad and it’s bitter cold. He always looks warm and tells me to buy some but it’s steep. I like how quiet it is though and maybe some day I’ll afford some. I’d take blizzard top and bottom or just Kenia bottom if I had them.

As a wool wearer, I just looked up king of the mountain wool... that's crazy. No way can that be worth it any aspect.

If you are looking to get into wool, big bills wool pants ($125) is a great value or the LL Bean guide pant ($175) or new kids on the block STAGR Gear stride pant ($200). Very common in the NE for trackers. I also am a big supporter of the Cabela's wooltimate series. One of the best clothing lines they every made.
There is a big trend and NE tracking is growing very fast.

Wool is silent, well insulated, and keeps you warm even when wet... but it's heavy, bulky and doesn't compress well.

A lot of the old woolen mills have went only a few remaining, like Johnson woolen mills, Pendleton, filson, LL Bean

 

[Macintosh]

I think this is a great thread, but one of the takeaways should be that there are a lot of commonalities, but this IS individual, ie your solution wont be my solution. You have no choice but to experiment and learn what works for you with varying levels of exertion.

Which is the second point. There is a solid reason why whitetail stand hunters and ice fishermen wear big heavy parkas and bibs (an “on/off” heat solution), while people who move around a lot and stop and go use layers (a “thermostat” solution that can be gradually adjusted). Layering is not a “set it and forget it” thing. For anything other than pure sitting in one spot all day, you always have various levels of exertion. That means you have to adjust your layers +\- constantly as your exertion changes, and you have to anticipate the need to adjust. The “grail” is clothing layers that keep you warm enough for lower exertion, while breathing and venting enough for higher exertion, but that doesnt exist really, the best you can hope for is a slightly wider range of applicability. So “layering” is a thing you actively do in the field throughout a day, not a type of clothing.

You also need to adjust and be prepared a bit for different types of hunting. For me, when hunting on the move in the mountians and stopping several times, its easier to stay warm than it is to avoid overheating. So I need to have very thin layers I can wear when really hoofing it uphill and avoid sweating, then much warmer puffy layers I can put on for stopping. If Im still hunting, etc then I need heavier mid layers or a second midlayer, Etc. If still-hunting is your gig you may need to find a heavier midlayer than a guy who just climbs mountains and then glasses for 45 min, and repeats. You may need a 200-weight ambient, while he wants the lightest one he can get, even though you are "doing the same thing". If you're cold, you're cold...you gotta add another/thicker layer. The idea is at any given time to have a layer combo on that keeps you warm enough, without getting wet from inside or outside.

For me, thin baselayers are way better than thick if Ill be moving. Regular pants and an active midlayer or a grid fleece is generally all I can wear when moving. If moving slow then for sure a second thicker layer with something to cover it and protect from wind and snow. And a HEAVY puffy jacket and pants to stop. So many people get a lightweight puffy and think it’ll be warm. It wont. But they are cheaper and nice for the sexy, pleasant conditions when more people are out, so they get pushed on you. Make sure your puffy jacket has enough insulation, 5-6oz of good quality down insulation (insulation weight, not jacket weight, good = 800 fill power or better) is what you want. That lighter-weight puffy makes a good midlayer for cold temps, or something to pull on when stopped in much warmer wx, but its not sufficient for keeping you warm when standing still in legit cold temps. Also if you're used to bibs, then packable puffy pants are the parallel must-have.

And get a merino buff and a WARM beanie if you dont already have. You lose a ton of heat thru your head, so if you are cold put your hat on. In very cold temps when hiking a baseball hat or no hat with the buff pulled up over your ears will keep your face and ears from freezing while still allowing you to dump enough heat to avoid sweating.

 

[Stache Attack]

As a wool wearer, I just looked up king of the mountain wool... that's crazy. No way can that be worth it any aspect.

If you are looking to get into wool, big bills wool pants ($125) is a great value or the LL Bean guide pant ($175) or new kids on the block STAGR Gear stride pant ($200). Very common in the NE for trackers. I also am a big supporter of the Cabela's wooltimate series. One of the best clothing lines they every made.
There is a big trend and NE tracking is growing very fast.

Wool is silent, well insulated, and keeps you warm even when wet... but it's heavy, bulky and doesn't compress well.

A lot of the old woolen mills have went only a few remaining, like Johnson woolen mills, Pendleton, filson, LL Bean

Can you find wooltimate still? I’d buy a jacket forsure if I could find one… I like sleeping Indian and kind of Mountian for being small mills and it is nice, worth it no but nice yes

 

[mtnbound]

Long time whitetail hunter here (PA if it matters). I've also done a couple first season rifle elk hunts in CO. Up until now, I've always worn a heavy parka, flannel shirt, and long johns for hunting. When whitetail hunting from a stand I add heavy bibs to that. Previously in CO we were able to drive to our base camp, so we had the ability to bring everything but the kitchen sink gear-wise.

Next year I'm doing a drop camp for first rifle. Given that we can't bring as much with us, I decided to try the layering systems I've been reading about. Today I was able to test out all my new clothing while doing some sneak hunting for whitetail in PA. Long story short, I was cold. It was 24 degrees, with 10-15 mph winds and a real feel of 14.

In the past it wasnt quite that cold on our elk hunts, but I'm aware it's a possibility. I was hoping to share my gear list and see where people could make suggestions for changes/improvements.

Up top I was wearing:
175 GSM merino wool (Minus 33)
Kings Camo performance fleece (comparable weight to the FL Klamath)
Pnuma Waypoint soft shell

For bottoms i wore:
175 GSM merino wool (Minus 33)
SKRE hardscrabble pants

As soon as I got outside I was chilly. Once I started sneak hunting I wasnt cold, but I wasn't warm either. The few times I was covering ground a bit faster I was warm enough.

When I stopped and stood for a few hours I added a Kings Down puffy (transition jacket) and a pair of zip on Stone Glacier Helio pants (fleece mid layer). That definitely helped, but again I wouldnt say that I was warm. But I wasn't uncomfortable either.

Should I add a heavier midlayer up top to help with getting cold? Swap any pieces of gear? My lower half wasnt too bad. I was cold enough that I was comfortable walking out with the puffy and fleece pants on. From what I've read most people dont wear their puffies while walking and the folks at SG assured me that I wouldnt want to walk with the fleece pants on.

Open to any suggestions!

At the temperature and wind you mentioned, I would have worn more layers.

Typically, for my upper body, I just wear a lightweight merino base layer because I warm up quickly, and it's easy to add more insulation like a button-up wool shirt. But if it's below 30 degrees, I wear a Brynje fishnet merino under my regular merino base layer. That combo works really well for me. I then add a variety of insulation layers, mostly wool, like a button-up shirt, or a 200-weight zip-up or pullover, as my next layer. For me, wool is the best active insulation ever made. I have yet to find an active insulation layer that actually works as described. I always have my puffy jacket with me, but if it's below 30, windy, and I'm not gonna be moving much, I will add an extra layer of insulation, like a Peloton 240, under it. My final layer is, of course, a wind/waterproof shell if needed. I might wear my puffy while I move, but that depends on the intensity and distance of movement.

I prefer hooded layers to keep my neck warm, but a neck-insulating item can be beneficial, and don't forget good insulated gloves or mittens.

I am not a big fan of soft shells. I would swap it out for a better insulation layer.

For my lower body, I am not a big fan of base layers unless they are the zip-off style, and again, wool, because I warm up quickly. Typically, below 30 degrees, I switch to a heavier-weight wool pant like a Big Bill. Above 30 degrees, I use lighter weight wool pants like FL Obsidian, but at times I will wear synthetic pants like Kuiu Attack/Kutana or FL Corrugute Guide. Depending on the weather forecast, I may add puffy pants and a wind/waterproof shell.

Keep things simple. If you run cold, add more layers of insulation.

 

[Dave_S]

I think the right answer is going to be heavily dependent on activity level. And as others have said, it can really vary from person to person depending on how hot or cold they run. I have a softshell jacket and while I really like it, it just doesn't get a ton of use. It doesn't really do anything particularly well. However, softshell pants are great. I have First Lite catalyst pants (whatever version has the side zippers) and I use the hell out of them.

For me, looking at your list, I would add a heavier (more down) puffy, a better mid layer and wind blocker, and puffy pants. Maybe consider some sort of heavier pants, just make sure it's something with vents so you can dump heat while active. You also might consider a vest of some sort to help bump up core temps.

Additionally, for me, 175 gsm merino is enough to keep me warm below 20 as long as I'm moving, especially if I'm under a pack and wearing my bino harness; but I'd plan on stepping up to something heavier for static or still hunting. You didn't really mention hands/feet/head, but a neck gaiter can make a big difference. Same for gloves and boots, but you have to find what works for you.