First bird dog training, advice for some clueless?

[Crippledsledge64]

So been attempting to train my female lab (6 months old) for ducks and upland and am honestly at a loss. Tons of information online but it all seems contradictory to each other. I'm honestly getting frustrated and a little concerned seeing how i'm not likely to get another dog for some time and feel some pressure for this to work. I'd appreciate any insight or advice at this point, but I can't really pay for a progressional training. Here's what I'm working with.

Female black lab age 6 months named Mackinac. Mother and father both hunters.
Personality slightly shy in new experiences also very strong willed and very food driven
She has some obedience down, will sit, lay down, leash up, wait to eat until I give the command even if my back is turned, and we're working on heeling which she seems to be picking up.
Drive: Just started watching birds about a month ago, really wants to chase the family of geese off my lawn.
Has a good nose and seems too smart for her own good.

Challenges:
She seems to loss interest in bumpers pretty quickly even scented ones.
She more wants to chase my buddies dog than play fetch with him
She tries to take control of the training and will go to the truck if she is done.
Strong willed and often struggles with recall.

Biggest challenge:
Hands down me, I have no idea what I'm doing despite researching constantly.

Really i'm looking for insight, where should she be at her age. Any advice for the challenges listed, and any resources you guys have found helpful in the past. I feel frustrated working on training only to find another source tell me all the things wrong with doing it that way, ie: using treats for motivation.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy or Richard Wolters works. I used Game Dog for Ace, worked very well, even with screw ups on my part.
Sounds like stopping before boredom may be the biggest thing on the bumper. Throw it twice, then take her for a walk.

Have you incorporated treats at the end of training or retrieves?

 

[Crippledsledge64]

I've incorporated treat at the end of the throws but then she just ignores the bumper and focuses on the treats to maybe i'll wait until after were done. She'll go for about 5-7 throws and then seem to get bored at this point. Today though she only did two and went back to the truck but I also found a cactus needle in her shin. Thanks for the advice, i'm probably putting too much pressure on it. I've heard about Wolters on some also post so i'll look into that. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[cuttiebrownbow]

You are not making it fun for your pup and you should always leave them wanting more. Throw a couple bumpers and leave it at that. To regain interest in bumpers you could zip tie some wings to the bumper at first.

Have you done bird and gun introductions yet? It takes birds to make a bird dog.


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[AK_Skeeter]

I've incorporated treat at the end of the throws but then she just ignores the bumper and focuses on the treats to maybe i'll wait until after were done. She'll go for about 5-7 throws and then seem to get bored at this point. Today though she only did two and went back to the truck but I also found a cactus needle in her shin. Thanks for the advice, i'm probably putting too much pressure on it. I've heard about Wolters on some also post so i'll look into that. Thanks again for the advice!

Start by limiting retrieves to 2-3 throws per session, making them as exciting as possible.
You want her prey drive to be stimulated. Some labs get really excited with splash marks in water,
others a bouncing tennis ball, others thrown live pigeons.
Your attitude should also be upbeat and exciting.
For example:

Do not worry about your retriever being steady...get her super excited about retrieving first.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

You are not making it fun for your pup and you should always leave them wanting more. Throw a couple bumpers and leave it at that. To regain interest in bumpers you could zip tie some wings to the bumper at first.

Have you done bird and gun introductions yet? It takes birds to make a bird dog.


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Yes!!! The wing zip trick helped Ace.

 

[30338]

Work hard on basic obedience. Skip any play retrieving. Force fetch this dog in August or Sept if you want to hunt this fall.

I'd work on loud noise exposure and would progress up to a 20 gauge at around 50 yards and have treats handy to praise her when gun goes off. Move in to 30 yards, aiming opposite direction if only obviously. If no issues, move closer the next session.

I try to setup training where the dog has no choice but to do what I want. Thus the force fetch which ingrains in them what is expected. Should change the whole dynamic. That's me and that's what has worked for me. Others can feel free to disagree.

Check out Stonnie Dennis on youtube. He trains a ton of labs and has good advice as well.

 

[gelton]

There are two trains of thought here on how to proceed, one of which may have already lost its viability.

Back when I was heavily training field trial dogs in the early 90's, the book Gun Dog was the bible. Not for the old-timers, they were force fetch evangelists, but Gun Dog worked great for me.

The problem here is that if you haven't gotten the dog to give anything to play fetch by 6 months, then it is probably too late to go by the Gun Dog method because it is centered around getting your dog to this point from 8-12 weeks to 6 months.

As others have said, I would try real birds...I used to have 6 ducks that actually slept in the kennel with my lab but when it was time to retrieve they were no longer bunkmates.

So, if you arent able to get her "birdy" with real birds by this point, then force fetching is most likely your only option.

I had my dog doing things at 4 months that it would take the old-timers 8-12 months to do, but they refused to work a dog until they were about 6 months because the training was so hard on them that they were afraid it would break their spirit if they started when they were younger.

You are definitely at a crossroads with this one, and I think you will find your answer by trying real birds.

 

[Crippledsledge64]

Thanks for the advice guys, I took her out for about 3 throws after dinner and she was actually really excited so maybe I just put too much on her earlier when I was out in the sage brush. My buddy has a grouse that got smacked on the road frozen in his freezer for her but where can I find live birds? I'm not seeing anything on the local listings.

 

[KurtR]

Freddy kings the retriever trainer web site. Best 60 dollars you will spend. Every thing on video from pup to finished level dogs. He answers questions you have. I have spent a bunch of money in the last year on different programs for a beginner his is probably easiest to follow.

go trap some pigeons for live birds.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Thanks for the advice guys, I took her out for about 3 throws after dinner and she was actually really excited so maybe I just put too much on her earlier when I was out in the sage brush. My buddy has a grouse that got smacked on the road frozen in his freezer for her but where can I find live birds? I'm not seeing anything on the local listings.

Try to find a local retriever club as they usually train with live birds.

When I lived in the lower-48 I used a landing net attached to a pole with a couple of radiator clamps
and went to a bridge at night where pigeons roosted. Using a headlamp it was easy to catch as many
pigeons I needed for the next days training.

 

[gelton]

Thanks for the advice guys, I took her out for about 3 throws after dinner and she was actually really excited so maybe I just put too much on her earlier when I was out in the sage brush. My buddy has a grouse that got smacked on the road frozen in his freezer for her but where can I find live birds? I'm not seeing anything on the local listings.

Maybe check around for a duck farm or someone selling duck eggs locally...I think we got ours from the feed store.

Just tape their wings (and legs if water training) and have someone toss em up...with a shotgun blast if she is gun trained.

 

[slvrslngr]

6 months? Take it easy on her, she’s basically a toddler. Work on the basics, be patient but firm and keep training time short and fun. All dogs progress at different rates so keep your expectations in check and focus on the stuff she’s doing well. Save some money and get some professional help next year.

 

[Crippledsledge64]

Took her out for bumber throws tonight and did about four and she was loving it. Still not always wanting to bring it back though. Thanks for all the advice, looks like I’ll be doing some reading and try a little bit more patience.

 

[Wrench]

Make it easy on yourself and pick small things to focus on. Forced fetch. Sit. Stay.....etc. reward each activity and then combine a few.

At 6 months my pup had me nervous as she would not reliably fetch. Fast forward a couple of months and shes diving from boats and docks to make retrieves.

When you feed them, drop a book on the floor to simulate gun fire....a gunshy dog is a heartbreaker.

You won't need to train them how to find birds, just how to approach birds and work with you to get them killed.

My lab was a STELLAR upland dog because he would follow hand signals and was very easy to read. My Drahthaar was like a push button hunting machine....I literally learned how to hunt birds from her, not the other way around....but the first few trips in the field were a learning curve.

Whatever you do, dont be in a hurry or get angry.

Here's a pic at 8 months of my pup forced fetching a bumper from a dock. 3 months ago she would not even fetch on command.....now I throw a ball into a crp field and she goes and finds it.....just keep it fun.

 

[30338]

WIsh I had access to a dock close by. That looks like a blast.

 

[cacklercrazy]

Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy or Richard Wolters works. I used Game Dog for Ace, worked very well, even with screw ups on my part.
Sounds like stopping before boredom may be the biggest thing on the bumper. Throw it twice, then take her for a walk.

Have you incorporated treats at the end of training or retrieves?

Cris akin video series is what I used. Really good. Do agree do quick training and change it up to keep interest up.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Fun and excitement....when pup returns don't take bumper away immediately, praise for returning and make a big deal about it, when you take it away throw it immediately for another retrieve. Most labs will soon figure out that if they bring it back, they get another retrieve.

 

[Howiemoth]

Amazon.com

Speed Train Your Own Bird Dog: Hunting Dogs expert teaches you his completely reliable program Paperback – April 1, 1990​

by Larry Mueller

 

[mtnlomo]

Using a bird wing is what helped my lab turn a corner retrieving when she was just a little puppy. And training in steps is crucial, so that each new thing you introduce will almost guarantee her success in that new skill. Train her while you play and play while you train.


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