First backpack hunt layering help

[ctsmith]

I know there are several of these threads but I'd appreciate your thoughts on my situation. I will be hunting with a friend who has experience, but this is my first true backpack hunt so I'm anxious and will greatly appreciate input.

Southwest coues mountains
Lows - 20
Highs - 55
On the trail a few hours before sun up. 1.5 hours and 1000' gain from camp to glassing spot. Back to camp after dark.

Mostly Kuiu system:

Patagonia Capilene midweight base
Teton Crew
Teton Puffy
Teton Soft Shell (16 oz)
Attack Pant
Teton Rain Jacket (8 oz)
Teton Rain Pant

Before it comes up, there won't be much of a chance of significant rain in the southwest so I chose to go super lightweight on the rain gear with a very modest weight softshell. It’s a weight penalty of about 5 oz. I'm okay with that.

1 - Is this enough clothes? I feel like the only time cold will be an issue is after the morning hike and sitting on the glassing point before sunup, and about an hour after sunup. The sun warms things up quick. When back at camp in the evening will be cool also.

2 - Legs - My legs rarely get cold (but it may have an effect on core temp that I don't know about). I know that hiking in I will be fine without the Capilene leg base, but I'm guessing they will feel good on the mountain at first light. Should I plan to wear them in and strip them off later in the day? I hate taking off boots and pants but surely can get over it. What do you guys do?

3 - Top - The plan in the morning is Capilene base, Teton Crew, and Teton Softshell. When arrive at glassing point I will immediately put on the puffy to retain heat. Does this sound right?

Thanks in advance.

 

[DaveC]

A good system but in my book way short on insulation for sitting. The insulation in the Teton is breathable; good for stop and go, less so for outright warmth. I'd add a hooded down parka with not less than 4 ounces of down fill.

You might find that the Teton puffy and soft shell are somewhat redundant. The soft shell will probably do better amongst the cat claw and cholla.

 

[ctsmith]

Dave, thanks for the input. I appreciate the feedback.

Regarding the puffy and soft shell being redundant, I don't see it that way, no more so than any other puffy/soft shell (or rain coat) combination.

As for the sitting cold, I hear you. My thinking is that it is only for two hours max. It heats up fast. I will retain a lot of heat from the hike. That will last a while. But then again, better safe than sorry. What are the merits of adding a Kuiu Superdown puffy for a two layer puffy system? I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on it.

 

[fngTony]

Not quite apples to apples but I layer the Teton puffy under a guide jacket and a shell definitely boosts the teton when sitting. For my upcoming Nov hunt I just bought a 800 fill down vest to wear in-between the kuiu layers. All layers nicely without too much bulk in the arms.

Also consider gloves and head covering. The wind will suck heat from exposed areas.

 

[fngTony]

I think your leg system will be fine when hiking around. I ran a similar set up with temps from 35-65 and didn't get too hot. You want more leg insulation when sitting at 20 degrees though. Removing boots isn't fun but I also like to rotate my socks in the middle of the day.

 

[ctsmith]

Maybe this is a better plan for the top.

Teton Crew
Teton Puffy
Teton Softshell
Super Down Hood Puffy over the soft shell when its cold.

 

[JollyRoger]

For everything except dead of winter activities I use a similar system which I think you have covered. Base LS shirt, a light polartec or merino hoodie, a puffy in the 60g range and either a hooded softshell or hardshell (never both). For dead of winter I would also add another puffy in the 100 to 120g range for once you stop moving.

If you're not expecting much rain I might leave the rain shell at camp or even in the truck. In fact, looking at your list my first though was to swap out the rain shell and your softshell for the Guide jacket, but it's 24oz....same as packing the two jackets you have listed. So either way you'll be ok there

 

[fngTony]

Maybe this is a better plan for the top.

Teton Crew
Teton Puffy
Teton Softshell
Super Down Hood Puffy over the soft shell when its cold.

My only caution with that is if you order the superdown from the outlet it can't be returned. You would have to make a size jump x2 or more to get the sleeves to fit. Superdown sleeves are pretty tapered. But the idea is good just consider a different puffy. You don't need camo for it so any ski/ mountaineering brand will have options. The Columbia puffies are cut generous.

Also for the country you are going to the softshell is a must to protect against abrasion. I think you can get away with out the rain jacket shy of a monsoon. Keep it at camp, to be safe.

 

[ctsmith]

Thanks guys. FNG, I appreciate the sizing notes. What do you think a superdown vest versus the sleeved version, and everything under the softshell?

Regarding rain, I hunted in the southwest desert in January of this year. It had not rained in over 6 months. It rained a solid two days during my hunt, and didn't rain again for 6 more months.

 

[ColoradoHunterHiker]

FNG has good advice... The superdown does have shorter sleeves than some expect. A good puffy is worth triple (or more) its weight in gold when sitting/glassing. They're compressible and easy to take on and off... Other options besides Kuiu for a puffy are Kifaru and the uncompahgre from First Lite...

 

[fngTony]

Ctsmith, everyone is a little different with heat retention so some trial and error may be needed. My current system for November in Colorado is
Kuiu 125 merino
Teton puffy
Eddie Bauer 800 fill down vest
Guide jacket.
When needed the guide will be swapped with an UA rain shell. Its been awhile since I handled a superdown and don't know if there has been any revisions but remember it being tight in the forearms ( I have skinny wrists) and not a lot of fill but that is probably compensated by the high fill rate (850?). I think the superdown vest is similar possibley superior to my EB but I scored the EB for $65 retail was $150.

Agree with CHH on the Firstlite puffy as an option. I owned it for two weeks so not much experience but it was a bigger cut( main reason I returned it)

 

[BroodBuster]

As for the sitting cold, I hear you. My thinking is that it is only for two hours max. It heats up fast. I will retain a lot of heat from the hike. That will last a while. But then again, better safe than sorry. What are the merits of adding a Kuiu Superdown puffy for a two layer puffy system? I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on it.

Chances are you will not be able to retain any heat from the hike up. In fact if you work up a sweat on the climb up to a ridge top and find a brisk breeze you can get hypothermic very quickly. Like in minutes. Once body heat is gone it can be very difficult to get back. I always carry a puffy vest and a wool stocking cap. Just as soon as the pack comes off the puffy and hat go on. I also always carry my goretex jacket which has been used a lot more as a wind break during hunting season then for rain.

I always wear Marino base layers top and bottom. Even if I work up a sweat the Marino helps get that sweat off the skin.

 

[Bughalli]

You will be surprised how fast you can get cold after hiking, getting sweaty and sitting at first light. That heat goes quick! Especially if there's wind.

Merino for base layers. I also really like the zip off bottoms kuiu offers. Wow are they easy to take on and off without messing with your boots.

800 fill puffy vest weighs almost nothing and can add a lot of warmth as under layer.

Superdown parka....they seem too light and form fitting to me. You can pick up a Mountain Hardwear Kelvinator or Absolute Zero that is much much warmer and cheaper. Wear it over everything.

 

[KMT]

I would pick merino over capeline or any other synthetic side layer.

I would take a good puffy over a soft shell any day of the week, especially if you already have the rain jacket.

My way may not be the best way, but it's best for me.

 

[DaveC]

What are the merits of adding a Kuiu Superdown puffy for a two layer puffy system? I've been contemplating pulling the trigger on it.

Kuiu down stuff doesn't have enough fill. Get something warmer.

 

[ctsmith]

Dave, is all 850 fill not created equal?

 

[crmiller84]

Not Dave, but I believe he was saying that they don't put enough ounces of down in the coats to keep them light. 4oz of 850 would be warmer than 2oz of 850, even if the down was exactly the same.

 

[ctsmith]

10-4. Thanks for explaining. I Understand now.

The mailman delivered a First Lite package today and I just got done playing with it all. Heres what the top is looking like.

FL Llano merino 170 base
FL Uncompahgre vest
Kuiu Teton Puffy
Kuiu teton softshell

As for bottoms, I am ordering the FL 3/4 Aerowool Glenwood bottoms and, assuming I like them, they will go below the Kuiu Attack pant

 

[MuleyFever]

I hunted CO the last 2 seasons from 9000' to 12000' in late Sept with frost on the ground in the mornings warming up in the afternoons. I ran a light weight merino, a heavy weight merino and the heavier Peloton (all KUIU) and was fine 99% of the time. There was one day I put on the super down because of the wind. I pack the aforementioned and a rain shell for most my hunts.

I dropped the soft shell 2 seasons ago and don't miss it. A puffy and a rain jacket are all you need. You need insulation and water resistance. A soft shell does both but neither really well. A puffy and a rain shell cover both for the same weight or close to it.

 

[ctsmith]

Where I hunt in Arizona a tough outer layer is a must.