Field shooting. Its hard.

[Strider]

A few weeks back @BearGuy , myself and 9 buddies took to the hills for our now annual field shooting "competition". I started this shoot last year after wanting to see for myself what hit rates are under slight stress in the mountains. It's not pretty.

A quick summary
The shoot was 12 targets 100yds - 810yds. 3 points for a first round impact 1pt for a second. Each shot was +/- 2moa. Each shot started with full kit on. Each shot was timed with varying times per shot. All ranging, dialing, etc had to be done on the timer. As if you are hunting. Once you locate the animal and decide to shoot it. The time and pressure start.
I tried to vary each shot in distance, angle, and shooting position.
Between the 11 guys we had the full gamut of hunters. Full time guides, killers, new hunters, and experienced casual hunters.


@BearGuy shooting a 12" plate at 620yds with a 10 - 15mph gusty wind. The position was quite awkward with feet higher than your head. No one hit this target.

Conclusion
The combined first round hit rate as a whole was 28%. Most shots could be taken prone. I tried to make it so this wouldn't happen but I failed. All but 3 could be shot from prone. The guy who won finished with 17pts. Myself and a buddy finished tied 2nd with 14pts. The first half had light wind that could be mostly accounted for by holding edge of plate. The second half of the targets were in or across a main valley and had a strong 10-15mph wind that would gust over 20mph or more. Then switched 180° the last target. Overall wind was very challenging.

My take aways
- calling wind is a learned art form. It separates the men from the boys.
- spotting impacts in your scope is a necessity. Where I failed was seeing your miss isn't much help in something like this unless you have practiced quickly and accurately making a correction and applying it. I would see the miss and fumble my way to a wrong correction.
- Mil scopes are the way.
- suppressors are the way.
- my shooting was abysmal. I choked on any shot that wasn't prone. I let the timer get in my head. Many stages I finished with 30+ seconds to spare. Being fast does no good if you miss.
- this is my big one. I'm sorry if it's long winded. Just becouse you have a light recoiling, rokstocked, suppressed rifle with a FFP Mil mil scope. Means very little if you can't keep your self together and brake good shots under pressure. Ones practice must be very very intentional. Shooting prone on a known range, even under a timer, does not and will not help on the mountain past a certain point. If you want to increase proficiency on a mountain than you need to shoot in the mountains, get training, or be very diligent and proactive in your personal time to shoot sitting, kneeling, standing, and whatever on a timer. Be realalistic and thoughtful with your range time and figure out how to improve your precision and efficiency of movement and time.
- focused practice is needed

Sorry this is long. I find this stuff fascinating. Hope you get something from it.

 

[Strider]

A last observation. Of the guys shooting most are average hunters who shoot maybe 100 - 150rounds a year. Those with the large magnums did better than those with lighter recoiling cartridges. I found this interesting becouse my personal hit rate went up as I went down in recoil. But during the shoot it was opposite. They were seemingly able to miss call the wind and have more leeway? Maybe not a big enough data set? You tell me.

 

[powpowpowers]

I think your "long winded" is the biggest point. Practice with intent and practice with your specific platform.

I see it a lot in my local monthly three gun match. Dudes can have the most trick pistol / rifle setup and they'll place almost last because they don't know their dope, and aren't used to drawing from a holster and gaining a sight picture quickly. Add a timer to that and people tend to panic as well as they feel like theyre going to run out of time. The old adage of slow is smooth and smooth is fast I have always found applies to most shooting scenarios.

I really like you're competition idea. I think it's a lot of fun for you and your friends and really good practice at the same time.

As far as the smaller / bigger caliber observation. At 800 yds my 300 Norma is almost half the wind drift of my 6.5 Creed. Which at that distance is roughly 2.5 ft. So definitely helps take some of the guess work out of it. But the Norma takes a lot more of my focus to spot splash with properly especially at shorter ranges due to the recoil so between that and the weight there are definite trade offs. I would be curious if you had it in the data where the mag guys were getting more first shot impacts than the small cartridge guys.

 

[khuber84]

Were the guys shooting the bigger cartridges more versed with their rifle? Shoot more frequently? Put more rounds down range a year? That makes big difference. The faster heavy high bc bullet is def gonna require less wind hold, but you still have to be able to calculate a hold. If you're saying first half of day was hold X edge of plate, that's generally 0.25-0.3mil hold(on a 2 moa target) the big boys would still be holding on plate just probably right 1/3 or right quarter. If they held center, theyd still have a decent chance of catching the edge the plate.

My only question for the guys with the magnums, we're they seeing their shots? Seeing that bullet is essential.

That area sure looks like north or south fork area of the flathead!

 

[Strider]

@khuber84 The guys that did well with the magnums do not shoot a ton and definitely dont practiceunder time. Just shoot some laying on the range. It wasn't fully across the board magnums were better. I get the high bc is better. But the fact lighter recoiling guns did not show an advantage even on quicker awkward shots was suprising. I have a 6.5creed and held my own but I shoot a lot more than any one else there besides @BearGuy .

Also to clarify. No one in the shoot are high level shooters. Most are a good representation of normal hunters. Shooting is a by product of hunting.

The Magnum people were definitely not seeing impacts.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Sounds like you’d get a kick out of shooting the NRL-Hunter matches, if you don’t already.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

That looks like a lot of fun.

 

[BearGuy]

Taken with a grain of salt as my shooting was very very poor, most of my scores, I was hitting second round impacts. I believe 5 of my 7 impacts were second round impacts. The magnums that were there were definitely hitting first round impacts but not as many second round. For example, the winner was shooting a 300 win mag and hit 5 of 7 first round impacts. It did seem like follow ups on the magnums were not doing any corrections but was obviously easier to shoot in that wind. As @Strider said, even though I had a 6 cm with a rokstok and maven, I got my butt handed to me this year. Lots more practice to do in field positions.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

May be more about the bullet choice?

The following is using COTS ammo, published velocities, a 10 mph crosswind, 600 yards and is for demonstration purposes only:



For kicks here is what I have on four of my rifles, only the 30-06 uses COTS:

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Awesome post and thread! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Flymost]

Thanks, great write up. Maybe another takeaway would be that gusty crosswinds at 600 yards is a no go?

 

[Hnthrdr]

Looks awesome! Practice like your play is a good mentality! Been trying to incorporate this as much as I can, from shooting rocks, to doing “mock” hunts with my muzzle loader ( wife staples a cardboard vitals on a tree in the woods, then I go “hunt it” try to take off hand/ standing/ kneeling shots. Definitely humbling that’s for sure

 

[TaperPin]

A few weeks back @BearGuy , myself and 9 buddies took to the hills for our now annual field shooting "competition". I started this shoot last year after wanting to see for myself what hit rates are under slight stress in the mountains. It's not pretty.

A quick summary
The shoot was 12 targets 100yds - 810yds. 3 points for a first round impact 1pt for a second. Each shot was +/- 2moa. Each shot started with full kit on. Each shot was timed with varying times per shot. All ranging, dialing, etc had to be done on the timer. As if you are hunting. Once you locate the animal and decide to shoot it. The time and pressure start.
I tried to vary each shot in distance, angle, and shooting position.
Between the 11 guys we had the full gamut of hunters. Full time guides, killers, new hunters, and experienced casual hunters.

View attachment 902946
@BearGuy shooting a 12" plate at 620yds with a 10 - 15mph gusty wind. The position was quite awkward with feet higher than your head. No one hit this target.

Conclusion
The combined first round hit rate as a whole was 28%. Most shots could be taken prone. I tried to make it so this wouldn't happen but I failed. All but 3 could be shot from prone. The guy who won finished with 17pts. Myself and a buddy finished tied 2nd with 14pts. The first half had light wind that could be mostly accounted for by holding edge of plate. The second half of the targets were in or across a main valley and had a strong 10-15mph wind that would gust over 20mph or more. Then switched 180° the last target. Overall wind was very challenging.

My take aways
- calling wind is a learned art form. It separates the men from the boys.
- spotting impacts in your scope is a necessity. Where I failed was seeing your miss isn't much help in something like this unless you have practiced quickly and accurately making a correction and applying it. I would see the miss and fumble my way to a wrong correction.
- Mil scopes are the way.
- suppressors are the way.
- my shooting was abysmal. I choked on any shot that wasn't prone. I let the timer get in my head. Many stages I finished with 30+ seconds to spare. Being fast does no good if you miss.
- this is my big one. I'm sorry if it's long winded. Just becouse you have a light recoiling, rokstocked, suppressed rifle with a FFP Mil mil scope. Means very little if you can't keep your self together and brake good shots under pressure. Ones practice must be very very intentional. Shooting prone on a known range, even under a timer, does not and will not help on the mountain past a certain point. If you want to increase proficiency on a mountain than you need to shoot in the mountains, get training, or be very diligent and proactive in your personal time to shoot sitting, kneeling, standing, and whatever on a timer. Be realalistic and thoughtful with your range time and figure out how to improve your precision and efficiency of movement and time.
- focused practice is needed

Sorry this is long. I find this stuff fascinating. Hope you get something from it.

Great write up and great fun! Good job all around. What you came up with is better for hunters than most competitions. Great insight into the winds - it’s not talked about nearly enough.

Growing up shooting in the wind, I think 600 yards is easily twice as hard as 500 because of minor unseen breezes that blow bullets off center enough to be out of the vitals. I literally can’t usually see 2 mph variation at that distance and that alone puts half the shots off a 10” plate at 600.

Your setup would be valuable for all hunters. Very cool.

 

[BearGuy]

Also, just to reiterate, even though I shot a lot of rounds through 2 different guns leading up to this, most of my “training” was prone off a pack on mostly flat ground. This is absolutely not enough to be a truly great shooter. Not even close. Most of my practice moving forward I think would be better spent 300 yds and in from more uncomfortable positions and much more of a variety of positions. It was very eye opening this year that rounds down range while comfortable does not translate super well into the mountains.

 

[Dave Thomas]

I would really like to do something like that at my hunting lease. We're not in the mountains but practicing real hunting shots would be very beneficial.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Also, just to reiterate, even though I shot a lot of rounds through 2 different guns leading up to this, most of my “training” was prone off a pack on mostly flat ground. This is absolutely not enough to be a truly great shooter. Not even close. Most of my practice moving forward I think would be better spent 300 yds and in from more uncomfortable positions and much more of a variety of positions. It was very eye opening this year that rounds down range while comfortable does not translate super well into the mountains.

That's the single best lesson that you learn by shooting PRS and NRL-Hunter matches - how to build stable positions in compromised field-type situations. As you know, prone and similar positions are often not an option in the actual field.

 

[BearGuy]

That's the single best lesson that you learn by shooting PRS and NRL-Hunter matches - how to build stable positions in compromised field-type situations. As you know, prone and similar positions are often not an option in the actual field.

Even if prone is an option, often times it’s still less than ideal because it’s never flat and not at the correct angle to the target.

 

[Bluumoon]

A few weeks back @BearGuy , myself and 9 buddies took to the hills for our now annual field shooting "competition". I started this shoot last year after wanting to see for myself what hit rates are under slight stress in the mountains. It's not pretty.

A quick summary
The shoot was 12 targets 100yds - 810yds. 3 points for a first round impact 1pt for a second. Each shot was +/- 2moa. Each shot started with full kit on. Each shot was timed with varying times per shot. All ranging, dialing, etc had to be done on the timer. As if you are hunting. Once you locate the animal and decide to shoot it. The time and pressure start.
I tried to vary each shot in distance, angle, and shooting position.
Between the 11 guys we had the full gamut of hunters. Full time guides, killers, new hunters, and experienced casual hunters.

View attachment 902946
@BearGuy shooting a 12" plate at 620yds with a 10 - 15mph gusty wind. The position was quite awkward with feet higher than your head. No one hit this target.

Conclusion
The combined first round hit rate as a whole was 28%. Most shots could be taken prone. I tried to make it so this wouldn't happen but I failed. All but 3 could be shot from prone. The guy who won finished with 17pts. Myself and a buddy finished tied 2nd with 14pts. The first half had light wind that could be mostly accounted for by holding edge of plate. The second half of the targets were in or across a main valley and had a strong 10-15mph wind that would gust over 20mph or more. Then switched 180° the last target. Overall wind was very challenging.

My take aways
- calling wind is a learned art form. It separates the men from the boys.
- spotting impacts in your scope is a necessity. Where I failed was seeing your miss isn't much help in something like this unless you have practiced quickly and accurately making a correction and applying it. I would see the miss and fumble my way to a wrong correction.
- Mil scopes are the way.
- suppressors are the way.
- my shooting was abysmal. I choked on any shot that wasn't prone. I let the timer get in my head. Many stages I finished with 30+ seconds to spare. Being fast does no good if you miss.
- this is my big one. I'm sorry if it's long winded. Just becouse you have a light recoiling, rokstocked, suppressed rifle with a FFP Mil mil scope. Means very little if you can't keep your self together and brake good shots under pressure. Ones practice must be very very intentional. Shooting prone on a known range, even under a timer, does not and will not help on the mountain past a certain point. If you want to increase proficiency on a mountain than you need to shoot in the mountains, get training, or be very diligent and proactive in your personal time to shoot sitting, kneeling, standing, and whatever on a timer. Be realalistic and thoughtful with your range time and figure out how to improve your precision and efficiency of movement and time.
- focused practice is needed

Sorry this is long. I find this stuff fascinating. Hope you get something from it.

Looks like outstanding terrain to practice in. I want to know who humped all the plates in and recruit them for a shoot down here.

 

[Strider]

@Bluumoon
Ha. It's a group effort but there is a certain individual that takes the big plates across canyon. Young and strong like ox. He is the one you want.

 

[huntnful]

Awesome dude! Do you have anymore pics from the shoot? The country looks beautiful!

I shot my small gun with virtually zero recoil, along side my big gun with some good recoil, and felt the first round hits were easier with the big gun just because the wind holds were less and easier to account for. I think it was just a mental thing under pressure for me. You still have to make a hold, but the center of the reticle is normally much closer, or still on the plate for the most part.