Fewer Bucks, More Fawns??

[Travis Hobbs]

A new Rokcast with Randy Larsen and Brock McMillan!

Fewer Bucks, More Fawns? - Rokslide

Is issuing fewer buck tags growing mule deer populations? Or is it limiting growth? Lets see what the data and experts are saying!

www.rokslide.com

 

[Westhunt]

A new Rokcast with Randy Larsen and Brock McMillan!

Fewer Bucks, More Fawns? - Rokslide

Is issuing fewer buck tags growing mule deer populations? Or is it limiting growth? Lets see what the data and experts are saying!

www.rokslide.com

I've had the opportunity to capture deer with both of these guys. They're the absolute experts on mule deer and have an absolute passion for studying and protecting mule deer. This was one of my all time favorite podcasts!

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[TButtars]

I sure hope this was released on April fools for good reason……. I think at the one hour mark he said that loins and cars are our biggest killers of mule deer. I think the title of this podcast is a little bit of click bait but in saying that I would like to thank Travis and the biologist who dedicate the time and research into mule deer that they do. I personally think buck to doe ratios are the very last thing we need to worry about when it comes to population growth. I could go on and on about all the other factors that I think are way way more important than buck to doe ratio. One thing that is very clear is mule deer numbers are not growing and we need to do everything we can to help mule deer.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

I sure hope this was released on April fools for good reason……. I think at the one hour mark he said that loins and cars are our biggest killers of mule deer. I think the title of this podcast is a little bit of click bait but in saying that I would like to thank Travis and the biologist who dedicate the time and research into mule deer that they do. I personally think buck to doe ratios are the very last thing we need to worry about when it comes to population growth. I could go on and on about all the other factors that I think are way way more important than buck to doe ratio. One thing that is very clear is mule deer numbers are not growing and we need to do everything we can to help mule deer.

Appreciate your thoughts! The April fools thing was lost on me, when we recorded it we set it to launch April 1st and didn’t even think about it

The title is a little grabby, but the data they have does suggest the lower the buck to doe ratio (to a point obviously) in a herd, the higher the fawn to doe ratio generally is and the more productive that herd can be. That is not something you hear your average deer hunter discuss.

I think hunters in general focus on one thing, bucks. And many times the only answer “we” have had is limit buck hunting. I don’t think that’s the real answer.

I think the more knowledgeable hunters can be, the more good that can be done all across the west for a species we all care a bunch about.

 

[Grundy53]

One thing that is very clear is mule deer numbers are not growing and we need to do everything we can to help mule deer.

What if one of the things that will help the mule deer herd grow is lowering the buck to doe ratio?


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[COelk89]

I sure hope this was released on April fools for good reason……. I think at the one hour mark he said that loins and cars are our biggest killers of mule deer. I think the title of this podcast is a little bit of click bait but in saying that I would like to thank Travis and the biologist who dedicate the time and research into mule deer that they do. I personally think buck to doe ratios are the very last thing we need to worry about when it comes to population growth. I could go on and on about all the other factors that I think are way way more important than buck to doe ratio. One thing that is very clear is mule deer numbers are not growing and we need to do everything we can to help mule deer.

I don't think the title is misleading at all. These gentlemen went into great detail to describe why a lower buck to doe ratio can influence herd productivity, and that it is one of the only variables that we can control. Please understand that these guys are collecting thousands of data points, and running advanced statistical analysis that are able to discern patterns that are just not visible to the average person or even the most experienced woodsmen. We need to get out of the old ruts of hand me down wives-tails, and follow what the data tells us, otherwise what is the point of spending all the money.

Great podcast. I listened to the GoHunt one posted a week or so previously with Dr. McMillan and it did not diminish listening to this one at all. I hate to give Utah too much credit but between their Watershed Restoration Initiative, the comprehensive GPS collaring, and some of the innovative habitat work they are doing a great job. It is not a state I pursue to hunt big game and maybe I will regret that some day. I do want to shout out my buddy who was a collar tracker in Colorado and he was full time and he was on it. The challenge with the collar studies is really a labor issue...they need technicians to go and chase the collars down. I do believe Colorado is moving to GPS but I just wanted to shoutout NW Colorado a little bit as they do have a lot of collar data informing some of their decisions even if it is not advanced as what Utah has going. There are those within CPW who covet some of the work done in Utah...

 

[sndmn11]

I think hunters in general focus on one thing, bucks. And many times the only answer “we” have had is limit buck hunting. I don’t think that’s the real answer.

I think a step further in saying they only care about "big" bucks. You could cover a person up in deer, but most will tell you... --->

One thing that is very clear is mule deer numbers are not growing and we need to do everything we can to help mule deer.

...if they don't shoot a buck that is brag-able.

I buy into the concept of doe factories being an indication of herd health a lot more than inches of antler.

 

[Andyram_18]

Well done Travis. Thanks for doing this. It sure is changing the way I'm thinking about our mule deer outlook. It kills me to know that so many sportsmen are still in the dark about mule deer management. although the 23' winter was awful, I found myself quite excited to see what type of research is coming out of it. The first hard winter we've had within this technology age. I'm so excited to continue to see the research results on feeding studies, winter range loss and recruitment. Mule deer management has to change, and todays research can guide that change in a positive way. Funny to think that weve been managing mule deer all these years with relatively small amounts of data.... My favorite part of the podcast was when they talked about the "good ol days" and the buck/doe ratio being in the single digits! CRAZY!

 

[CorbLand]

I think hunters in general focus on one thing, bucks. And many times the only answer “we” have had is limit buck hunting. I don’t think that’s the real answer.

I think the more knowledgeable hunters can be, the more good that can be done all across the west for a species we all care a bunch about.

You can change that “think” to “know.”

Brock has said a couple times he doesn’t like doing podcasts but I am very glad he does them. This information needs to get out because we have to change what we are doing. We have been rehashing the same thing for 40 years and it’s working so well, we keep having to do it.

 

[CorbLand]

I don't think the title is misleading at all. These gentlemen went into great detail to describe why a lower buck to doe ratio can influence herd productivity, and that it is one of the only variables that we can control. Please understand that these guys are collecting thousands of data points, and running advanced statistical analysis that are able to discern patterns that are just not visible to the average person or even the most experienced woodsmen. We need to get out of the old ruts of hand me down wives-tails, and follow what the data tells us, otherwise what is the point of spending all the money.

Great podcast. I listened to the GoHunt one posted a week or so previously with Dr. McMillan and it did not diminish listening to this one at all. I hate to give Utah too much credit but between their Watershed Restoration Initiative, the comprehensive GPS collaring, and some of the innovative habitat work they are doing a great job. It is not a state I pursue to hunt big game and maybe I will regret that some day. I do want to shout out my buddy who was a collar tracker in Colorado and he was full time and he was on it. The challenge with the collar studies is really a labor issue...they need technicians to go and chase the collars down. I do believe Colorado is moving to GPS but I just wanted to shoutout NW Colorado a little bit as they do have a lot of collar data informing some of their decisions even if it is not advanced as what Utah has going. There are those within CPW who covet some of the work done in Utah...

Utah DWR is great. They have dedicated employees that want to do things. I have worked with a couple of them on habitat projects and they are nothing but good people.

It’s the wildlife board that really hamstrings them. It’s a good check and balance to have the board but it brings a more political element to management.

 

[COelk89]

Utah DWR is great. They have dedicated employees that want to do things. I have worked with a couple of them on habitat projects and they are nothing but good people.

It’s the wildlife board that really hamstrings them. It’s a good check and balance to have the board but it brings a more political element to management.

They truly are, I am proud to say our company has been contracted in the past and present projects with UDWR.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Another good podcast!

 

[Andyram_18]

You can change that “think” to “know.”

Brock has said a couple times he doesn’t like doing podcasts but I am very glad he does them. This information needs to get out because we have to change what we are doing. We have been rehashing the same thing for 40 years and it’s working so well, we keep having to do it.

I stand corrected. LOL.

 

[willfrye027]

Great podcast! Seems like the biologists and game and fish are doing a good job of engaging the public on some of the legitimate science behind these issues. Wyoming seems to do a good job of this as well love the videos they put out on season setting.

@Travis Hobbs i think you need to create a new job title within DWR as public relations and help force some science on the curmudgeons who keep screaming for tag cuts at the rac meetings

 

[Travis Hobbs]

@Travis Hobbs i think you need to create a new job title within DWR as public relations and help force some science on the curmudgeons who keep screaming for tag cuts at the rac meetings

I think the state agencies are definitely seeing the fact that they need to put out information to the public. I have really appreciated Utah and Wyoming putting videos together with graphs and easy to digest information out.

Also putting commission meetings online! A bunch of states have come on board with that stuff. I think there is still room to improve but I’m glad to see many of them coming around!

I think and hope the days of burying information in a 300 page season setting structure are coming to an end.

 

[robby denning]

Good job Travis and thanks for everyone chiming in here.

 

[TButtars]

Appreciate your thoughts! The April fools thing was lost on me, when we recorded it we set it to launch April 1st and didn’t even think about it

The title is a little grabby, but the data they have does suggest the lower the buck to doe ratio (to a point obviously) in a herd, the higher the fawn to doe ratio generally is and the more productive that herd can be. That is not something you hear your average deer hunter discuss.

I think hunters in general focus on one thing, bucks. And many times the only answer “we” have had is limit buck hunting. I don’t think that’s the real answer.

I think the more knowledgeable hunters can be, the more good that can be done all across the west for a species we all care a bunch about.

So I have a theory on why the data shows what it does and why it may be misleading us….. Utah used to be state wide OTC general season the reason they went to limited entry is because certain areas couldn’t handle the hunting pressure of being a general season and the state decided to limit the tags in these areas because these units were not as productive. Now we are looking at the same units that now have higher buck to doe ratios because they went to limited entry and limited the tags. I think these units will never be as productive as the units with now lower buck to doe ratios because they are the units that are deer factors and make lots of deer hence they can handle general season hunting pressure.

 

[robby denning]

So I have a theory on why the data shows what it does and why it may be misleading us….. Utah used to be state wide OTC general season the reason they went to limited entry is because certain areas couldn’t handle the hunting pressure of being a general season and the state decided to limit the tags in these areas because these units were not as productive. Now we are looking at the same units that now have higher buck to doe ratios because they went to limited entry and limited the tags. I think these units will never be as productive as the units with now lower buck to doe ratios because they are the units that are deer factors and make lots of deer hence they can handle general season hunting pressure.

 

[realunlucky]

So I have a theory on why the data shows what it does and why it may be misleading us….. Utah used to be state wide OTC general season the reason they went to limited entry is because certain areas couldn’t handle the hunting pressure of being a general season and the state decided to limit the tags in these areas because these units were not as productive. Now we are looking at the same units that now have higher buck to doe ratios because they went to limited entry and limited the tags. I think these units will never be as productive as the units with now lower buck to doe ratios because they are the units that are deer factors and make lots of deer hence they can handle general season hunting pressure.

Most of the limited entry units in Utah went that way due to fire and reduced habitat that followed. Some quick examples include Henry mountains, Book cliffs, and the Vernon.

Thousand lakes was a recent general season unit that went to limited entry following a fire and then was recently returned to a general unit.

With the current general season unit divisions it is much easier to manage units independently to specific drivers which in most cases is buck to doe ratios laid out in the 5 year plan.

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[stan_wa]

Wow this was super interesting!
I hope our wildlife management here in wa Learns from this if we can increase the productivity of the animal birth rate that is about the absolute best thing wildlife managers could do for us

I think we should be focused on how to make the pie bigger aka increasing allowable harvest while maintaining herd population. This is the way to fix point creep and contenual restriction of opportunites