Federal New Cartridge

[littlebigtine]

That was a pretty good video. It will be interesting to see if Federal moves to some smaller calibers with this design.

The all-terra guys were pretty spot on pointing out that muzzle velocity does not equal long range accuracy. Less drop perhaps but not much. Im actually annoyed that this factory ammo is touted as some sort of 1000yd magic and yet running it through a hit probability calculator your only hitting a 1 moa target at 800 25% of the time?! And the name of it?! Backcountry? Pure marketing. We need these companies to be held more accountable for protecting ethics and fair chase in hunting. Instead they regurgitate the same sales pitch year after year with minor improvements in actual technology or tolerances. Im annoyed.

 

[coyotekilla]

I didn't read all 13 pages of comments first off, but my initial thoughts on the cartridge is that it will make the 220 swift look like an angel in throat erosion category. The steel case will likely not reload. And the benefits it offers are marginal compared to 7prc or 28 nosler.

 

[MarkOrtiz]

I didn't read all 13 pages of comments first off, but my initial thoughts on the cartridge is that it will make the 220 swift look like an angel in throat erosion category. The steel case will likely not reload. And the benefits it offers are marginal compared to 7prc or 28 nosler.

You should probably read it then. Throat erosion shouldn't be too bad because the powder charge isn't crazy. Federal and others say they will be making dies and it can be reloaded. 7PRC velocity with 4-8 inch less barrel.

Edit: one of the podcasts I listened to said that it is a 20% case failure rate at 6 reloads on a case. Another one said that it’s a 12 step process to resize and the die manufacturer was struggling. Hard to say at this point. With federal likely being the only one to manufacture cases I can’t see availability being great for components.

 

[Article 4]

You should probably read it then. Throat erosion shouldn't be too bad because the powder charge isn't crazy. Federal and others say they will be making dies and it can be reloaded. 7PRC velocity with 4-8 inch less barrel.

Will be very interested to see how that throat erosion progresses. We know higher speed can cause more throat erosion in some cartridges. They are probably using a fast burning powder or combination of powders to get 100% burn in a 4-8 inch less barrel.

Doesnt sound like they intend this to be a handloader thing with guys that shoot a ton, at least not right away so for a hunting rifle, that barrel might last a while with maybe 80-100 shots down the tube per year

 

[wyosam]

Case capacity on 243ai and 243-277fury are going to be very very close. I don't think it'd make any sense to do a custom 243-277fury reamer, just neck it down and run it through a 243ai FL die. I'd expect 6PRC like performance. With 15ish grains less powder.
Or for a lot cheaper, if you have a 243win laying around, just play with the brass and make regular 243win brass from the hybrid case and see how it runs in the standard 243win.

Ok, I just got slightly more intrigued by these new fangled cases. I’m pretty sure I have a slow twist 243 tikka barrel I pulled off a donor. I also have some 55gr Hammers I use for a very low recoil 243 round. Quick math in my head says 4k plus, for the cost of a few of these cases and some time at the bench. Hmmmm


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[Article 4]

Ok, I just got slightly more intrigued by these new fangled cases. I’m pretty sure I have a slow twist 243 tikka barrel I pulled off a donor. I also have some 55gr Hammers I use for a very low recoil 243 round. Quick math in my head says 4k plus, for the cost of a few of these cases and some time at the bench. Hmmmm


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Run it!!

 

[gbflyer]

Their claim is that the new case keeps the bolt loading the same. I am skeptical of it, and would like to see them show their work on that.


Not necessarily, recoil is in energy and PSI is force. I think the argument they are making for lower recoil is that they have less ejection mass from using less powder.

Edit: To answer your other question, yes if you increase the velocity of a given projectile and keep all other variables the same, you will get more recoil. Velocity is squared in the KE equation.

Me too. Maybe the cartridge case is more “grabby” on the chamber sidewall than brass?

 

[Bluefish]

More psi is more recoil right? Why is this changing the game? Its not like your having your cake and eating it 2… some one carr to clear this up for me? A 6.5 creed running that 80k psi approaches 6,5 prc capability? But the recoil would also be trending that direction?

Pressure is not recoil. Pressure is proportional to speed which is a component of recoil. The advantage of speed due to higher pressure is that it uses less powder so there is less recoil vs a case that makes the same speed at lower pressure.
Powder counts as weight for recoil so adding powder adds recoil.

 

[prm]

I'm turning 277 fury brass into 338 federal. I also reload the fury case as is. It's a bit easier to go up then down.

I put a 6mm-30cal expander mandrel through the fury case, then a 30-338 mandrel. Last, I run it through a full length 338 fed sizing die. Done. For 308, just do the 6mm-30 and then run it through a 308win die.

How is that working with the 338 Fed? Is the idea to run higher pressures?

 

[Sundodger]

Pressure is a force not speed, force needs no movement. Speed is velocity without direction specified.

If you are ever in question look at the units, they will tell you what it is and what it can be converted to.

Pressure is not recoil. Pressure is speed which is recoil. The advantage of high pressure speed is that it uses less powder so there is less recoil vs a case that makes the same speed at lower pressure.
Powder counts as weight for recoil so adding powder adds recoil.

 

[prairieboy]

when playing with smokeless muzzleloaders, if your using 40gr of powder A to achieve 2300 fps and 60 gr of powder B to achieve 2300 fps, there is a very noticeable difference in recoil.

 

[SloppyJ]

Pressure is a force not speed, force needs no movement. Speed is velocity without direction specified.

If you are ever in question look at the units, they will tell you what it is and what it can be converted to.

I don't give a shit about this new gay stuff from federal but don't come on here holier than thou trying to church it up on people. By definition, force is vector. Which means it has a directional aspect to it. Hell, i remember that from my first year of college physics. Cmon man.

 

[Sundodger]

I don't give a shit about this new gay stuff from federal but don't come on here holier than thou trying to church it up on people. By definition, force is vector. Which means it has a directional aspect to it. Hell, i remember that from my first year of college physics. Cmon man.

Look at the brains on Brad!

You should have paid better attention in class then. If you had you would have known that the directional aspect of force does not mean anything is moving. Put your hand on a wall and push, that force your exerting on the wall does have a direction, but the wall isn't moving.

Be better.

 

[tony]

I always preface with I don't know shit about nothing.
Hows that Federal .30 Supercarry doing for them?
Just seems like new rounds for the influencers to tell us we need one.

Of course the real judge will be Joe VonBenidict. Then I will believe this is necessary.

 

[SloppyJ]

I always preface with I don't know shit about nothing.
Hows that Federal .30 Supercarry doing for them?
Just seems like new rounds for the influencers to tell us we need one.

Of course the real judge will be Joe VonBenidict. Then I will believe this is necessary.

Him and Spomer have already made a video touching tips and raving about the authority this cartridge brings to the table.

 

[coyotekilla]

You should probably read it then. Throat erosion shouldn't be too bad because the powder charge isn't crazy. Federal and others say they will be making dies and it can be reloaded. 7PRC velocity with 4-8 inch less barrel.

Edit: one of the podcasts I listened to said that it is a 20% case failure rate at 6 reloads on a case. Another one said that it’s a 12 step process to resize and the die manufacturer was struggling. Hard to say at this point. With federal likely being the only one to manufacture cases I can’t see availability being great for components.

I may be wrong, I've been wrong before. Its my understanding that throat erosion is a bi-product of stuffing alot of powder down a tiny hole at high pressure. Our known barrel burners, 22-250, 243, 220 swift are all high pressure rounds. Just lay a sheet of sandpaper on a board and pull it by the corner, drags easily... add a gallon jug of water putting pressure on the paper and repeat. There must be higher wear. Now will that cause problems in a rifle that is only shot 20x a year... prolly not, but I don't see prs guys jumping to it.

 

[tony]

Him and Spomer have already made a video touching tips and raving about the authority this cartridge brings to the table.

LoL
Last month it was the 7PC
I really try and like these guys, but the sponsorship checks cloud what they really want to like

I do have to say Spomers book on 7mm cartridges is pretty good.

 

[z987k]

I may be wrong, I've been wrong before. Its my understanding that throat erosion is a bi-product of stuffing alot of powder down a tiny hole at high pressure. Our known barrel burners, 22-250, 243, 220 swift are all high pressure rounds. Just lay a sheet of sandpaper on a board and pull it by the corner, drags easily... add a gallon jug of water putting pressure on the paper and repeat. There must be higher wear. Now will that cause problems in a rifle that is only shot 20x a year... prolly not, but I don't see prs guys jumping to it.

Hornady the other day said on their podcast, they see more correlation with throat erosion to powder volume vs bore size and little to do with pressure. Comparing some 50k cartridges vs 63k.

S2H said on their podcast, rcbs is stalled in building reloading components for it, it taking as much as 12 passes through a die to resize. If that's the case, this is DOA for anyone but the factory gun, factory ammo guy. And at $4+ per round, it's unlikely anyone will be shooting this enough to be proficient at the long ranges the cartridge is meant for.

 

[z987k]

How is that working with the 338 Fed? Is the idea to run higher pressures?

Yes, that's the whole idea. It turns the 338 fed into a 338wm. 200gr at 2800fps from 18in barrel. Extrapolate that up to the 24in barrel I see published 338wm load date and you'd be right at 2950, which is right there with all the 338wm load data.

 

[z987k]

Ok, I just got slightly more intrigued by these new fangled cases. I’m pretty sure I have a slow twist 243 tikka barrel I pulled off a donor. I also have some 55gr Hammers I use for a very low recoil 243 round. Quick math in my head says 4k plus, for the cost of a few of these cases and some time at the bench. Hmmmm


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For sure. From a 24" barrel, probably more like 4150 with around 50gr of powder.
Neck down, bump the shoulder back and almost for sure turn the neck.