Fast twist 25 cal real world data

[eLightfoot]

Have you ever had any pressure problems with this load? The data that Berger sent me shows 50.6 grains as max load for 4831sc but I’m assuming it’s very conservative.

I don’t show any pressure signs with this load. But I’m sure it’s close to pressure based on velocity.

 

[Mountainrancher]

I don’t show any pressure signs with this load. But I’m sure it’s close to pressure based on velocity.

What elevation and temps are you usually at with it?

 

[eLightfoot]

What elevation and temps are you usually at with it?

0-7k and maybe 75 degrees

 

[cbuck516]

Howa 1500 LA
PBB 26" 1:7" 25-06AI
Badlands SBD2 110gr 3421fps (hunting load)

I played with a variety of powders during barrel break in and fire-forming with the Berger 135 just to see if the barrel preferred any particular powder for a possible target load. I got up to 3200fps using N570 without any pressure signs, but favored N565 since I had an 8# jug and had no real need to push a target load that hard. I was in the 3000-3100 range with H4831 and N560, 3000-3150 with N565, and 3000-3200 with N570.

Once I had all brass fire-formed I moved on to load development with the SBD2-110gr as that is the bullet I built this rifle for. Again favoring N565, I spent the time to do a full load workup and ended up at 3421fps with N565. This load has been tested on whitetails so far with very positive results and will be my primary rifle on an upcoming late season elk hunt.

After hunting season is over I will return to playing with some lead-core bullets. Ultimately, I think a 18" 25CM build is in my very near future as my kids are now killing more deer than me and I need something that is far more maneuverable from an elevated blind with much less recoil.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Howa 1500 LA
PBB 26" 1:7" 25-06AI
Badlands SBD2 110gr 3421fps (hunting load)

I played with a variety of powders during barrel break in and fire-forming with the Berger 135 just to see if the barrel preferred any particular powder for a possible target load. I got up to 3200fps using N570 without any pressure signs, but favored N565 since I had an 8# jug and had no real need to push a target load that hard. I was in the 3000-3100 range with H4831 and N560, 3000-3150 with N565, and 3000-3200 with N570.

Once I had all brass fire-formed I moved on to load development with the SBD2-110gr as that is the bullet I built this rifle for. Again favoring N565, I spent the time to do a full load workup and ended up at 3421fps with N565. This load has been tested on whitetails so far with very positive results and will be my primary rifle on an upcoming late season elk hunt.

After hunting season is over I will return to playing with some lead-core bullets. Ultimately, I think a 18" 25CM build is in my very near future as my kids are now killing more deer than me and I need something that is far more maneuverable from an elevated blind with much less recoil.

You could always cut a few inches off your barrel and put on a brake. That would solve the recoil issue, but your still going to have a longer barrel.

 

[cbuck516]

You could always cut a few inches off your barrel and put on a brake. That would solve the recoil issue, but your still going to have a longer barrel.

This is a 12# rifle that is braked and suppressed. Recoil is reasonably low and manageable for an adult. My 6-year old and 8-year old are still learning to shoot and I don't want them to develop any fear of recoil. The -06 based cartridges are just way less efficient than the Creedmoor class of cartridges. My 25-06AI hunting load uses 61 grains of powder where a 25 creedmoor pushing the same projectile would likely be down in the range of 40 grains. That directly translates to a huge reduction in recoil. That combined with an 18" barrel should easily result in a 10# rifle that only produces 8ft# of recoil. My 25-06AI load is at about 17ft# right now, maybe a little more

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

This is a 12# rifle that is braked and suppressed. Recoil is reasonably low and manageable for an adult. My 6-year old and 8-year old are still learning to shoot and I don't want them to develop any fear of recoil. The -06 based cartridges are just way less efficient than the Creedmoor class of cartridges. My 25-06AI hunting load uses 61 grains of powder where a 25 creedmoor pushing the same projectile would likely be down in the range of 40 grains. That directly translates to a huge reduction in recoil. That combined with an 18" barrel should easily result in a 10# rifle that only produces 8ft# of recoil. My 25-06AI load is at about 17ft# right now, maybe a little more

If you want even less recoil, although it would require a new set of components and dies, the 6 creed can do the same job as well, and you can get 6 creed in a factory rifle.

 

[cbuck516]

If you want even less recoil, although it would require a new set of components and dies, the 6 creed can do the same job as well, and you can get 6 creed in a factory rifle.

I may chamber my M98 in 6CM. Undecided at this point. The 25CM is definitely happening though

Edit: I went back and looked and realized why I decided against the 6CM. I want to build this 18" low recoiling rifle in a short action and the Howa SA supposedly has max COAL of around 2.8". This would require me to seat the 6mm bullets that I want to use (Badlands SBD2 100gr) past the case/neck junction. The 25CM does not have that same restriction for my intended bullet. I'm also just a quarter bore fanboy

 

[sierracharlie338]

I asked this in the .25 success thread as well, but figured I'd ask here too. Anybody have any load data or experience with Black Hole bullets? They sell a 145 in .257 that sounds interesting.

I think there is a guy over on Long Range Hunting forum that was testing them. From what I recall he had pretty good results I believe.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

My 25-06AI hunting load uses 61 grains of powder where a 25 creedmoor pushing the same projectile would likely be down in the range of 40 grains. That directly translates to a huge reduction in recoil. That combined with an 18" barrel should easily result in a 10# rifle that only produces 8ft# of recoil. My 25-06AI load is at about 17ft# right now, maybe a little more

I requested the 25 Creed load data from Berger today, and as always, they delivered very quickly. This was for the 133 and 135s. I also included the same data for the .25-06AI for comparison. There are only three 25 creed max loads that approach 2900+ FPS, and that is out of a 26" barrel. Every one of the -06AI max loads is able to get 2900+ up to around 3150, albeit with significantly more powder out of a 26" tube.

At 18", it may be difficult to match the velocity of the creed with your -06AI. You will save powder and recoil for sure however. There always has to be a tradeoff unfortunately.

 

[cbuck516]

I requested the 25 Creed load data from Berger today, and as always, they delivered very quickly. This was for the 133 and 135s. I also included the same data for the .25-06AI for comparison. There are only three 25 creed max loads that approach 2900+ FPS, and that is out of a 26" barrel. Every one of the -06AI max loads is able to get 2900+ up to around 3150, albeit with significantly more powder out of a 26" tube.

At 18", it may be difficult to match the velocity of the creed with your -06AI. You will save powder and recoil for sure however. There always has to be a tradeoff unfortunately.

A 25CM will never outrun an equally spec'd 25-06AI. I will be happy if I can get 2900fps in an 18" 25CM with the SBD2 110gr. That is far more than adequate for whitetails inside 400 yards which is all I would ask it to do. I've got the 26" 25-06AI which will be going elk hunting here in a few weeks.

 

[amassi]

I requested the 25 Creed load data from Berger today, and as always, they delivered very quickly. This was for the 133 and 135s. I also included the same data for the .25-06AI for comparison. There are only three 25 creed max loads that approach 2900+ FPS, and that is out of a 26" barrel. Every one of the -06AI max loads is able to get 2900+ up to around 3150, albeit with significantly more powder out of a 26" tube.

At 18", it may be difficult to match the velocity of the creed with your -06AI. You will save powder and recoil for sure however. There always has to be a tradeoff unfortunately.

But when you consider what range that extra velocity comes into play it’s probably moot.
A moderate creed at 2750 stays above 1800 to 880yards
The 06 ai to 1000.
How often will you need to extra 120 yards
Is it worth the extra powder, recoil, report and loss of barrel life( barrel life is not a factor to me, barrels are cheap, but some people take that into account)


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[jjohnsonElknewbie]

But when you consider what range that extra velocity comes into play it’s probably moot.
A moderate creed at 2750 stays above 1800 to 880yards
The 06 ai to 1000.
How often will you need to extra 120 yards
Is it worth the extra powder, recoil, report and loss of barrel life( barrel life is not a factor to me, barrels are cheap, but some people take that into account)


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All great points right there and thank you. If I didn't already have a $hit load of components and dies for mine, I may go another route. However, I also like the added benefit of being able to shoot factory ammo in a pinch out of the -06AI.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

For $hits and giggles, I emailed Berger again yesterday requesting any 25 PRC data they may have. Here is Bob's response.

"At this time, we are not set up to work with a .25 PRC wildcat cartridge application based on any of the three PRC cases."

 

[willfrye027]

But when you consider what range that extra velocity comes into play it’s probably moot.
A moderate creed at 2750 stays above 1800 to 880yards
The 06 ai to 1000.
How often will you need to extra 120 yards
Is it worth the extra powder, recoil, report and loss of barrel life( barrel life is not a factor to me, barrels are cheap, but some people take that into account)


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This. I had a 25-284 and also a 25-06 fast twist, but my 26” 25 creedmoors have done everything I’ve needed with less powder and recoil. The more I shoot the more I realize being and staying proficient at 600-700 yards in the field is my true goal (not 1000 yards even though it’s doable/easy at the range)…and the -06 sized cartridges don’t offer a meaningful advantage for my goals.

 

[ThatDUDE]

25 creedmoor PBB 1:7tw 20" tube, Peterson brass, CCI 200, 133 Berger Elite, 39.2gr H4350 - avg 2640fps. Haven't hit 100 rounds yet and finally got the whisper pickle it was built for so after brass is all fired I plan to readjust and see the real velocity potential. 10 shot group.
View attachment 574735

I was wondering what velocity you are looking at right now? I have been eyeing a 20" 25 Creedmoor build running a suppressor.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I was wondering what velocity you are looking at right now? I have been eyeing a 20" 25 Creedmoor build running a suppressor.

I finally fired the last 10 of 100 last week with the suppressor and it averaged 2680 at 39gr. Unfortunately a couple of the shots had a little bit of bolt lift, so that may be all I can get out of it for powder, maybe it will speed up after another 100.

But also worth noting my chamber is throated for 131 black jacks, so the 133EH is seated pretty deep in the case and sitting .010" off the lands. Throating it out optimal for the Berger might allow for some more juice, but if I were to know what I do now and restart, I would go with 25-284. Which this chamber may get punched out to after I toast my lot of brass, if there's enough meat on the shank to allow it.

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I finally fired the last 10 of 100 last week with the suppressor and it averaged 2680 at 39gr. Unfortunately a couple of the shots had a little bit of bolt lift, so that may be all I can get out of it for powder, maybe it will speed up after another 100.

But also worth noting my chamber is throated for 131 black jacks, so the 133EH is seated pretty deep in the case and sitting .010" off the lands. Throating it out optimal for the Berger might allow for some more juice, but if I were to know what I do now and restart, I would go with 25-284. Which this chamber may get punched out to after I toast my lot of brass, if there's enough meat on the shank to allow it.

That seems awfully slow, what powder?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

That seems awfully slow, what powder?

Agree. This data is based on a 26" barrel, but I wouldn't expect more than 150 or so FPS loss.

 

[Harvey_NW]

That seems awfully slow, what powder?

H4350, CCI 200. Using an instrumental chronograph out in front, but it has been pretty spot on when I plug that velocity into the calculator to tune. Only 100 rds on the barrel.