Fair Chase

[taskswap]

On that topic, I have an e-bike and love it. I did hunt with it once but I mostly focus on wilderness areas where they aren't allowed (motorized or not) so it's not a regular thing. Personally I do think they're a big improvement over ATVs but I doubt most of the folks that prefer ATVs would go that route. Due respect to those of you that may be ATV fans, but most of the folks I run into myself that use them tend to be folks that... need them... if you catch my drift. Folks that couldn't hike 3 miles if they were chased by bears, if you know what I mean. That doesn't make me superior or anything. Well, maybe fitter...

That being said I do really enjoy my e-bike. In places where it's allowed, it's all about time - I can get down a logging road on foot just as easily, but the bike gets me there faster. I don't have to try to find a spot to park and camp right near XYZ trailhead. I can be a mile away and it's fine. If I want to focus a little lower, I don't need to break camp and drive down. I can just "commute" down with the bike for a day or two. For what little (zero) it's worth, you can put me down for "supports e-bikes" for sure.

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

The season structure that CPW set, with 3 deer hunts during the rut, is what is limiting trophy quality more than an atv could ever affect it. Also if you outlaw turrets on scopes and mandate a 3-9 power scope, no more 500 yard shots. The atv issue won’t ever go away so we would have to restrict ourselves to offset the “unfair advantage”

 

[*zap*]

IMHO, many things need to get harder again, that list includes people and 'success' needs a new definition.

 

[ianpadron]

I'm all for a complete motorized ban on anything other than a main USFS road. Anyone that disagrees needs to go hunt SW Montana or S Central/East Idaho and report back.

Fancy rifles still need a skilled marksman behind them, but an ATV will deliver a 350 pound Bubba to the same spot just the same as a fit guy, increasing pressure.

All of the areas would still be accessible to those willing to prioritize working hard to punch tags.

Flame on.

 

[Pony Soldier]

In the land of early snow, later seasons mean fewer hunters. We don't have hardly any trails and the majority of the FS roads are closed October15th. I rarely see any other hunters. Just getting anywhere requires an understanding of the landscape. There are places you just can't get there from here. Success is limited by days in the field, weather, and basic knowledge of the country.

You are better off with a bayonete than a scope. I don't think you can can more fair chase than that.

 

[cuerro viejo]

The season structure that CPW set, with 3 deer hunts during the rut, is what is limiting trophy quality more than an atv could ever affect it. Also if you outlaw turrets on scopes and mandate a 3-9 power scope, no more 500 yard shots. The atv issue won’t ever go away so we would have to restrict ourselves to offset the “unfair advantage”

A lot of capped scopes that can be dial to 500 easily. Especially in the 2.5-10 realm

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

A lot of capped scopes that can be dial to 500 easily. Especially in the 2.5-10 realm

I said non turreted

 

[cuerro viejo]

I said non turreted

so fixed internals with only adjustable bases?

Most 1” scopes have 12-16 MOA up in them and that gets you to 500-600 with most calibers

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

so fixed internals with only adjustable bases?

Most 1” scopes have 12-16 MOA up in them and that gets you to 500-600 with most calibers

I honestly don’t care. I wasn’t trying to argue rail specs with you or discuss anything with you really. It was part of the discussion about managing ourselves since cpw can’t manage for mature bucks.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I honestly don’t care. I wasn’t trying to argue rail specs with you or discuss anything with you really. It was part of the discussion about managing ourselves since cpw can’t manage for mature bucks.

The only way to enforce what you're suggesting is going the route of the muzzleloader season in CO. Either zero magnification scopes or no scopes at all during rifle season. How are you going to enforce shots 500 or less?

While you're at it, it's probably best to outlaw bow sights with more than 3 pins and no crossbows whatsoever. Hell, maybe just say no archery equipment that can shoot more than 250 fps. That would back folks up to the late 90s technology, and we still killed a pile of deer.

 

[DeerCatcherUT/CO]

The only way to enforce what you're suggesting is going the route of the muzzleloader season in CO. Either zero magnification scopes or no scopes at all during rifle season. How are you going to enforce shots 500 or less?

While you're at it, it's probably best to outlaw bow sights with more than 3 pins and no crossbows whatsoever. Hell, maybe just say no archery equipment that can shoot more than 250 fps. That would back folks up to the late 90s technology, and we still killed a pile of deer.

Nope not at all what I said. I said no more scope turrets and that’s all. Also it was just an example of something to limit ourselves. Do all WKRs have low testosterone and problems with reading or just you two keyboard warriors?

 

[cuerro viejo]

Nope not at all what I said. I said no more scope turrets and that’s all. Also it was just an example of something to limit ourselves. Do all WKRs have low testosterone and problems with reading or just you two keyboard warriors?

No you just don’t understand how a scope works. They all have turrets some are exposed some are capped.

You want basically want internal travel/adjustment capped at a certain level.

 

[omicron1792]

Absolutely hunting needs to get harder again. The wild turkey is the canary in the coal mine right now. Their populations are absolutely tanking. 30+% decreases across the range, and worse in localized areas.

Hyper realistic decoys, fanning, tss, rifles in the spring, the age of information, etc. The birds just can’t keep up to our evolving tactics. We’re recruiting less turkeys every year and killing more than before. It’s completely unsustainable but #chasing49, #turkeytour, and #cantstoptheflop is the world we currently live in.


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I think it’s 90% habitat and 10% technology. Also the number of hunters each year is decreasing. They just have to have a place to live/reproduce

 

[fatlander]

I think it’s 90% habitat and 10% technology. Also the number of hunters each year is decreasing. They just have to have a place to live/reproduce

We’re killing more turkeys every year and recruiting less. Harvests are at record highs across the country and recruitment is trending the down, it’s the lowest it’s been in this century.

Habitat is a bullshit cop out to point the finger at anything but hunters killing too many turkeys. State agencies will do anything but admit we’re killing too many birds. The hundreds of millions spent of R3 could go to habitat if that’s the really is the problem. Ground nesting bird habitat is beneficial for everything.

What’s the habitat like on Staten Island:

A quick google search of “wild turkeys in cities” yields the following:

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[cuerro viejo]

We’re killing more turkeys every year and recruiting less. Harvests are at record highs across the country and recruitment is trending the down, it’s the lowest it’s been in this century.

Habitat is a bullshit cop out to point the finger at anything but hunters killing too many turkeys. State agencies will do anything but admit we’re killing too many birds. The hundreds of millions spent of R3 could go to habitat if that’s the really is the problem. Ground nesting bird habitat is beneficial for everything.


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Also no fur market or ground predator incentives anymore. Hard to recruit when poults never get a chance to hatch

 

[JohnJohnson]

Do all WKRs have low testosterone and problems with reading or just you two keyboard warriors?

I'm sure you're a very manly man and are super great at reading. But if that literacy could be used to read an article about how scopes work I think you'd benefit from that.

 

[fatlander]

Also no fur market or ground predator incentives anymore. Hard to recruit when poults never get a chance to hatch

All the more reason to limit ourselves. We’ll do mental gymnastics all day long to blame everything else in the world for their decline except for our own over harvest, which is the easiest to correct.


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[omicron1792]

We’re killing more turkeys every year and recruiting less. Harvests are at record highs across the country and recruitment is trending the down, it’s the lowest it’s been in this century.

Habitat is a bullshit cop out to point the finger at anything but hunters killing too many turkeys. State agencies will do anything but admit we’re killing too many birds. The hundreds of millions spent of R3 could go to habitat if that’s the really is the problem. Ground nesting bird habitat is beneficial for everything.

What’s the habitat like on Staten Island:

A quick google search of “wild turkeys in cities” yields the following:

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Those pics I think prove my point more than you realize.

As someone that owns a farm and has spent last 6 years improving habitat, and watching the birds flourish, my experience goes beyond Google.

 

[fatlander]

Those pics I think prove my point more than you realize.

Guess what you can’t do in NYC or any of those cities pictured in my reply. . . Hunt turkeys.


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[fatlander]

Those pics I think prove my point more than you realize.

As someone that owns a farm and has spent last 6 years improving habitat, and watching the birds flourish, my experience goes beyond Google.

View attachment 717610

I’ve got a shoebox full of beards. My experience goes leaps and bonds further than google. The point is, habitat isn’t 90% of the problem. Turkeys can and do flourish in large metropolitan areas with abysmal habitat. Why is that? We’re not killing them there.


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