Exposed turrets?

[cuerro viejo]

Prob not enough. It’s annoying to see people pass off absolute bad information as fact.

You weren’t wrong though Maybe a touch heavy on the direct but spot on otherwise

Now, All we need is an ethics post on why anything over 250 is un- ethical

 

[TimberHunter]

I went back to the links. I found one that I think would allow me to zero the rifle and then create an accurate, customized DOPE chart. Based on my skill level, I already sorta had that since I am using common ammo/caliber.

I didn't see a form answer to my original question...
At 400 yards, I need to adjust 4.2 MOA. Do I need exposed turrets to do that? Or do I remove my scope caps for each adjustment? (Or do I learn where 4.2 MOA is on my reticle based on recommendations in this thread)

Since you’re newish, don’t go turning your turrets if they don’t have some type of zero stop. You’ll likely lose your zero.

Buy a cheap SWFA 10x fixed scope for sub $300 (bomb proof and proved over and over on this forum), commit an afternoon to watching some
videos or reading how to use mils by Formidilosu on here. Then go practice. It’s really not that hard nor expensive


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[CAElkhunter]

Agree with all the Hold over comments above. I have been on two separate outfitted hunts where clients were busy dialing their scopes on Bulls at 300 yds because they had turrets and zero at 200 yds. Both time the guides were shaking their heads and saying at this distance just put it on the top of the elk and shooooot! Both times the Bull got away due to the fiddling. You should be able to shoot out to 400 without any need for dialing turrets. As someone above said KISS. In the heat of the moment no need to complicate things.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I went back to the links. I found one that I think would allow me to zero the rifle and then create an accurate, customized DOPE chart. Based on my skill level, I already sorta had that since I am using common ammo/caliber.

I didn't see a form answer to my original question...
At 400 yards, I need to adjust 4.2 MOA. Do I need exposed turrets to do that? Or do I remove my scope caps for each adjustment? (Or do I learn where 4.2 MOA is on my reticle based on recommendations in this thread)

No you don’t BUT certain scopes were designed around constant dialing and return to zero and others not so much.. I have a little capped SHV 3-10 that I have removed cap and dialed multiple times. .

As far as your reticle holds they work at the correct power setting and if you ballastic solution is correct for current vs sight in DA. Biggest issue is having to be correct power setting for SFP scope. If you have a 2-12 it’s second nature, if you have 24X that’s a whole other issue.

Basically two options- go practice and verify your reticle and it’s holds, and/or invest in a system that offers a little more repeatability and ease of use.

 

[fatlander]

I’ve got a 3-12 Zeiss Conquest V4 with capped turrets and their MOA Christmas tree reticle in the scope that’s on one of my rifles. Using Zeiss’s ballistic calculator, with my rifle’s information, it’s been spot on. It does everything I need it to do at the distances the OP is talking about shooting.

I like decreasing fiddle factor when I can. Dialing within 400 yards is fiddling that isn’t necessary in my opinion, if you’ve got a reticle and calculator you’re comfortable with that you’ve verified at the range.


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[Wrench]

It's an elk at 400 yards.....not a ground squirrel. That's the prime environment for a holdover. Use your opportunity time to find a rest and shot angle....not fiddle with turrets.

This coming from a guy with a lot of target turret scopes.

 

[Wrench]

I went back to the links. I found one that I think would allow me to zero the rifle and then create an accurate, customized DOPE chart. Based on my skill level, I already sorta had that since I am using common ammo/caliber.

I didn't see a form answer to my original question...
At 400 yards, I need to adjust 4.2 MOA. Do I need exposed turrets to do that? Or do I remove my scope caps for each adjustment? (Or do I learn where 4.2 MOA is on my reticle based on recommendations in this thread)

Shoot a tall target at 400yds aiming for center. While aiming center, locate the impact point in your scope.

This is your holdover. It's that easy. There's a need to verify what mag settings you're on with a sfp scope....but typically @ 400 just pick a spot like wide open 9x on a 3x9 and locate the impact point.

Rock on.

 

[LongWayAround]

Agree with all the Hold over comments above. I have been on two separate outfitted hunts where clients were busy dialing their scopes on Bulls at 300 yds because they had turrets and zero at 200 yds. Both time the guides were shaking their heads and saying at this distance just put it on the top of the elk and shooooot! Both times the Bull got away due to the fiddling. You should be able to shoot out to 400 without any need for dialing turrets. As someone above said KISS. In the heat of the moment no need to complicate things.

That's a function of the shooter not knowing how to use their equipment, not because it takes too long to do for someone who is competent.

For my gun and preferred hunting bullet at 300yd, a 200yd zero means 8" of fall or 0.7mil and a 100yd zero means 13.8" fall or 1.3mil.

It takes maybe a couple of seconds to dial that or find the hash mark in the scope. It's not complicated.

If you're trying to do it with a capped scope and duplex reticle... well that's what you get.

 

[mt terry d]

In Montana on a pack hunt with horses and scabbards. My brothers 300 win mag was off by near a foot and a half when we came back after getting bumped. He had a Vortex Viper Gen 1 with exposed turrets and a zero stop. He didn't set the zero stop perfectly (gen 1s have the old "shim" system.)

He didnt have shot at an elk but when we got back he noticed it was moved. Took it to the range. A full 18 inches off zero.

wow.
just wow.

 

[Bluumoon]

I went back to the links. I found one that I think would allow me to zero the rifle and then create an accurate, customized DOPE chart. Based on my skill level, I already sorta had that since I am using common ammo/caliber.

I didn't see a form answer to my original question...
At 400 yards, I need to adjust 4.2 MOA. Do I need exposed turrets to do that? Or do I remove my scope caps for each adjustment? (Or do I learn where 4.2 MOA is on my reticle based on recommendations in this thread)

The reason I didn’t answer directly is there’s a lot to unpack prior to dialing or not dialing. For example, every time you buy new ammo even the “same” ammo your holdover may change. If your scope isn’t mounted correctly or doesn’t hold zero you’ll be unable to consistently figure out why you are missing.

I had 5 different guys over this year to help them get “sighted” in. I did what I could w what they were working with from ground up (remounting and proper zeroing). At the end I’d grab one of my rifles, call distances and dial elevation. They’d go from missing every thing past 200 on 10” plate with their rifles(even that was hit or miss) to nailing nearly every shot out to 450. Not part of the 5 guys, had a particularly sharp 11 year old consistent hitting 10” plate at 690 yards, but that was after spending a morning working on foundations.

 

[Bluumoon]

In regards to holding/ dialing. At 300yards I can use holdovers on 10” plate to my heart’s content. At 450” even knowing exact holdovers there are a lot more missed than dialing.

 

[Bluumoon]

If you have to pop the caps to dial, it’s the wrong scope for dialing.

 

[mad_angler]

If you have to pop the caps to dial, it’s the wrong scope for dialing.

That's an answer that is concrete and gives me direction...

 

[TradLife406]

All my guns now have Maven RS1.2's. Even my kids rifle.
Makes life so much easier especially when paired with a Revic range finder.
Makes life 10x easier even at mid range. Especially with my kids. I can dope the shot, dial and they can hold dead on.

If it's past 200 I'm dialing up.

Shooting 400 accurately takes some better gear. Not so much the elevation but having FFP vs second is a game changer for wind holds.

Guys cry they can't see a ffp reticle on the bottom end. Get glasses. I've never shot anything on min power in almost 30 years of hunting in Montana. And reticles are really good these days.

 

[Speaks]

My rifle is a Tikka 7mm Rem mag.
My ammo is 167 grain factory ELD-X.
My scope is Vortex Viper HS 4x16 x 44 (https://vortexoptics.com/viper-hs-4-16x44-dead-hold-bdc-moa.html).

I dont think I would every dial if it involved removing caps. If that is what you want to do get exposed elevation turrets. When you have the ability to dial you can always decide on a given shot to hold over, when you dont you dont even have the option.

That particular scope is also second focal plane so hold over only works at max magnification. That would disqualify it for me. Weather dialing or holding over I would also use a mil scope.

I think on that round with a 100 yard zero you get real close to

200 - .5
300 - 1
400 - 1.5

Less friendly numbers to quickly memorize after that but the first 400 look nice and clean whether you are ultimately dialing or holding over out to 400.

 

[Tobe_B]

Now, All we need is an ethics post on why anything over 250 is un- ethical

I got you no worries.

Anything over 250 yards is unethical because of ethics and morals, and probably Coriolis, and gail force hurricane winds.

OP, get a scope that has exposed turrets and is designed for the task. Read through the drop test threads and find a scope that fits your budget. Being consistent with a hold over is not as efficient as learning to dial. It’s not as cumbersome or challenging as some people would like you to believe.

 

[peterk123]

@mad_angler what caliber are you shooting? I may have missed it in one of your comments.

With a bit of info you can calculate your point blank range with your current scope where you can just aim out to certain yardage and not have deal with holdover. It is the route I would go if not dialing.

I prefer to dial for big game, and I try to limit my shots to 350 yards. I will go longer for antelope but I'm not a sharp shooter like others here. Antelope get mighty small past 300 yards. I have my hands full managing windage. I don't need to add holdover to the mix. Anything I can do reduce the risk of a bad shot I'm going to do. Getting as close as possible is number one. Dialing is number two. Despite what everyone says, 400 yards is not a chip shot. Add a 10 to 15 mph crosswind and gets interesting fast.

But if you are not setup to dial, point blank range. It just works. And if you have to shoot further, it will reduce less holdover. It may not be the solution you're looking for but check it out. I posted a link.

NRA Family | What is "Point Blank Range"?

As with many phrases related to marksmanship, everybody uses it...not everybody knows what it really means.

www.nrafamily.org

 

[Wagondriver]

Maybe I'm just slow, but why would anyone zero a big game rifle at 100 or 200 yards? Zero for maximum point blank range, and hold over for beyond that.

I have one exposed elevation turret scope, on my 17-223 for coyotes. Carried on a sling that knob has a tendency to move. It just happened to be an exposed turret scope, I didn't buy it for that. Wouldn't ever have an exposed turret scope on a big game rifle.

 

[Chris in TN]

Maybe I'm just slow, but why would anyone zero a big game rifle at 100 or 200 yards? Zero for maximum point blank range, and hold over for beyond that.

I have one exposed elevation turret scope, on my 17-223 for coyotes. Carried on a sling that knob has a tendency to move. It just happened to be an exposed turret scope, I didn't buy it for that. Wouldn't ever have an exposed turret scope on a big game rifle.

You’re asking a question that opens a can of worms, though it should not. Without exposed turrets you pretty much have to figure out what ranges you intend to shoot and work out a maximum point blank range zero solution that works for that. Like you, I have been doing that all of my life, and it works perfectly fine within reasonable limits. But if you stay here for more than five minutes, you will hear some people get very passionate about their hundred yard zeroes.

The bulk of the argument boils down to 100 yards being a distance sufficient to achieve a reliable zero, yet close enough that it will not materially change due to environmental influences if you go from a low elevation to a higher elevation where air density difference will cause trajectory deviations further down range. In theory that matters. In reality it generally does not. Most dialers will tell you to zero at 100 and dial to mpbr. I skip the step. You can too. Just understand that the dialing crowd encourages uniformity.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Maybe I'm just slow, but why would anyone zero a big game rifle at 100 or 200 yards? Zero for maximum point blank range, and hold over for beyond that.

I have one exposed elevation turret scope, on my 17-223 for coyotes. Carried on a sling that knob has a tendency to move. It just happened to be an exposed turret scope, I didn't buy it for that. Wouldn't ever have an exposed turret scope on a big game rifle.

I zero for 100 yards because that works for big game animals. Most are going to be killed at under 200 yards. A 100 yard zero works for that wherever you go. Out past that, you always have the time. It’s always a choice to take the shot or not.

If you practice, it is also easy to know a holdover or use the reticle for 200 or 300 yards.

If you practice, it is easy to dial for 200-600 yards. If you are taking shots at 300-600 yards where you don’t have time to get into a solid position and dial, you aren’t going hunting with me.

A good hunter can almost always get closer or pre-position himself to be closer than 300-600 yards. People kill these animals with bows and muzzleloaders.

I’ve never had an exposed turret on my SWFA scopes move in the years I have been carrying them.