Executive Action

[Murdy]

The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago, and it’s purpose was to allow the citizens the means to overthrow a tyrannical gov’t. You think that can be done today with your .223 black rifle? Since we can’t own atomic weapons what is the purpose of it? Don’t think for a minute that argument won’t come back someday. So, the logical thing to do is make sure it doesn’t. Do we need 20 round clips? Not like you are going to need one to overthrow the gov’t, but to shoot up a mall it works great. Every time there’s a mass shooting with large capacity clips and black rifles WE look bad. The NRA is at fault too (and I’m a member but not for much longer). They try and scare gun owners about “registration”. Really, you don’t think they have other ways of finding out you own a gun? You registered on this site? Ever buy a hunting license, used a credit card for ammo? So what if the anti-gun crowd wants that, stop fighting and try to appear reasonable so we can win back the public who don’t understand what a black rifle is. We don’t need to convince the anti-gun folks anything, it’s the people in the middle we are fighting for who vote. And we seem to be losing the battle every time there’s a school shooting and the NRA says the solution is armed guards.

The real issue with a majority of mass shooting is mental health which is at a crisis stage in the US. So what has the NRA done for that besides rally against Obamacare? If they really want to defend our freedom we need a major mental health reform, but that’s going to cost money so is at odds with their political base. Demographics change and I’m not sure being anti-gun is the negative it once was. When that happens we are all in big trouble, and we can thank the NRA for it’s hard line and often illogical stance. That’s why after being a member for 30 years I’m bowing out (plus the NRA pretending to be a pro hunting and conservation organization).

I am an NRA member and will remain one, as there really is no other effective voice for the positions the NRA advocates. I am concerned, however, with the way the organization has openly aligned itself so closely with far right-wing political interests. Politics in America is about appealing to those in the middle. My state was the last to allow concealed carry. The fight to effectuate that right was lead by rural Democrats. I do not see the wisdom in alienating those in the middle or on the left who are not anti-gun and anti-hunting (there are more of them than you think)

 

[DWinVA]

My view is it's government for the corporations by the corporations and not government for the people by the people. We're are pretty much screwed and it's going to get worse.

God Bless.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I'll do my best here as long as everybody understands that I do not prescribe to definites. I think that it's sad that our elected officials feel good about making sure the top earners in this country pay as little in taxes as possible while paying for said cuts with the decimation of positive social programs. Social security, Medicare, the 40 hour work week, minimum wage-these are all things that are beneficial for our society. It's really disheartening that rather than empathy for people who legitimately need help, poor people are viewed as mooches. I grew up pretty damn poor and our household did receive food stamps. Without that "handout", I'm sure it wouldn't have been good. My dad hated using SNAP and got off of it as soon as we were able to get jobs in high school and help out. I also received subsidized student loans and pell grants for college (first generation college graduate). My wife also had a similar upbringing and we have both worked our butts off to get where we are, firmly middle class, tax paying citizens.

I don't advocate for pure socialism (remember, I don't feel it necessary to take everything verbatim). Yes, some people abuse the system. As many have pointed out, people are going to be people, most good, some bad. I would also call parking your money in offshore bank accounts to avoid paying taxes a much bigger abuse. I would call employers paying their employees as little as required, forcing them to be on pubic assistance and building an obscene amount of wealth while paying minimal taxes a crime (Walmart anybody)? I don't think you should be bankrupt for needing necessary medical care. Why can't I go to a hospital and ask for a price list? Why are drugs cheaper in places we export them to than here? Greed. I don't think that you should be able to exert influence on elected officials because you have more money. Really the end of the Citizens United ruling would fix a lot of this but corporations are people, remember?

When people are poor, the sole concern is survival. Paycheck to paycheck, meal to meal. Some of those people resort to illegal activities. Some become dependent on drugs. Desperation breeds violence. When did the inner city ghetto's really become prevalent? Started with Reagan and his "trickle down" theory of economics. While I myself am a young whippersnapper, there is the idea that the 1950's were a golden era in America and it's gotten progressively worse. What was the tax rate then? As high as 90%. Not sure of whether this is a "left" or "right" source so take it as you will:

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates-2012-5

The solution to income inequality is not income equality. I do not believe everybody should have the same house, same car etc regardless of how hard they work. I do think people should be able to put in a full day's work and make enough money to have a home, have food on the table, maybe have a hobby, regardless of what they do. The divide between the rich and poor and the shrinking of the middle class is the biggest issue in our country in my opinion. Yes, some people will make more than other people. That's okay. Should a CEO make 1000 times more than his average worker? Should Martin Shkreli be able to raise the price of daraprim (treats toxoplasmosis) from $13.50 per tablet to over $750 per tablet?

I firmly believe in my right to own firearms. I don't think all arms are the same (sorry 5MB, I don't think anybody should have a nuke) and if a state wants to limit clips to 7 rounds vs 10, well, that's why officials are elected. If you don't like that, vote. A gun with a 7 round clip or a 10 round clip is still a gun. Nobody took it away. I also think the items that get the most media attention (terrorism, gun rights, gay marriage) are meant more to distract us while the corporate slime that run this country get away with theft. Ted Cruz, Donald Trump, etc don't give two shits about your guns. Ted Cruz obviously hasn't even taken hunters safety as holds a shotgun slung over his shoulder with the barrel pointed behind him. They will easily sway the other way if the price is right. Most politicians are phony pandering shits.

Lastly, I really don't identify myself as any specific race. I am Salish but racial pride is stupid. Pride is for something you achieve. Race is something you were born with. I don't care if you are black, white or brown. Blacks aren't all thugs and Mexicans aren't all rapists and want to take your jobs. There are good people all over the world, of all races, genders, nationalities. Just a glass half full kind of guy I guess. Certainly helps with the blood pressure.

 

[Hootsma]

The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago, and it’s purpose was to allow the citizens the means to overthrow a tyrannical gov’t. You think that can be done today with your .223 black rifle?

Absolutely, without a doubt. We did it as colonists to found this country. The Afganis did it to Russia. The Koreans and the Vietnamese did it to us. And, I would argue, the Iraquis as well.

Do we need 20 round clips?

What size would you suggest? 10 seems to be the common compromise. So I guess the 1st ten people killed don't count. Not to mention the fact that reloading is pretty quick and easy, even with a revolver. This is arbitrary nonsense. Your dealing with the minutia of symptoms and not the actual problem/s.

Every time there’s a mass shooting with large capacity clips and black rifles WE look bad.

We do?! How? I'm sorry, but I am not responsible for some sicko who wants to go shoot up a school or mall no matter how much you or the media want to blame me or others who believe in our Constitution.

So what if the anti-gun crowd wants that, stop fighting and try to appear reasonable so we can win back the public who don’t understand what a black rifle is.

I can't help you much if you think our Constitution is unreasonable and I'll never stop fighting for my and your Constitutional rights. However, there is the amendment process, so if you feel that strongly about it, have at it.

And we seem to be losing the battle every time there’s a school shooting and the NRA says the solution is armed guards.

I'm not sure where your drawing these conclusions from. Guns sales and NCIS checks skyrocket every time there is a mass shooting. I couldn't get within 5' of the counter at my local gun store after Sandy Hook. I think, slowly but surely, we are winning the propaganda campaign against the 2nd amendment and against the black/assault rifle fallacy.

The real issue with a majority of mass shooting is mental health which is at a crisis stage in the US.

You've finally gotten off the symptom train and hit on one of the actual problems. I agree with you here.

So what has the NRA done for that besides rally against Obamacare? If they really want to defend our freedom we need a major mental health reform, but that’s going to cost money so is at odds with their political base.

I guess you didn't bother to try and answer your own questions. Here ya go:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...p-mcsallys-introduction-of-mental-health-bill
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortne...al-health-bill-gets-support-from-nra-n2035163
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nra-backed-bill-aims-keep-guns-mentally-ill/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/6/nra-embraces-senate-mental-health-bill/
Is that enough to convince you that the NRA is not mute on the subject of mental health and gun access?

Demographics change and I’m not sure being anti-gun is the negative it once was. When that happens we are all in big trouble, and we can thank the NRA for it’s hard line and often illogical stance. That’s why after being a member for 30 years I’m bowing out (plus the NRA pretending to be a pro hunting and conservation organization).

I don't agree with everything the NRA does either nor any other organization or group I'm affiliated with. However, I can find enough common ground with them to make it well worth my while to support them. And I can find plenty of other organizations to support that fill in any of the perceived gaps as I see fit. I truly hope you reconsider your membership with the NRA. Or, at the very least, find an alternative organization that you like better that is going to fight for our 2nd amendment rights as hard and effectively as the NRA does.

 

[airlocksniffer]

The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago, and it’s purpose was to allow the citizens the means to overthrow a tyrannical gov’t. You think that can be done today with your .223 black rifle? Since we can’t own atomic weapons what is the purpose of it? Don’t think for a minute that argument won’t come back someday. So, the logical thing to do is make sure it doesn’t. Do we need 20 round clips? Not like you are going to need one to overthrow the gov’t, but to shoot up a mall it works great. Every time there’s a mass shooting with large capacity clips and black rifles WE look bad. The NRA is at fault too (and I’m a member but not for much longer). They try and scare gun owners about “registration”. Really, you don’t think they have other ways of finding out you own a gun? You registered on this site? Ever buy a hunting license, used a credit card for ammo? So what if the anti-gun crowd wants that, stop fighting and try to appear reasonable so we can win back the public who don’t understand what a black rifle is. We don’t need to convince the anti-gun folks anything, it’s the people in the middle we are fighting for who vote. And we seem to be losing the battle every time there’s a school shooting and the NRA says the solution is armed guards.

The real issue with a majority of mass shooting is mental health which is at a crisis stage in the US. So what has the NRA done for that besides rally against Obamacare? If they really want to defend our freedom we need a major mental health reform, but that’s going to cost money so is at odds with their political base. Demographics change and I’m not sure being anti-gun is the negative it once was. When that happens we are all in big trouble, and we can thank the NRA for it’s hard line and often illogical stance. That’s why after being a member for 30 years I’m bowing out (plus the NRA pretending to be a pro hunting and conservation organization).

For sure this. Join the BHA rather than the NRA. At least they support firearms and the land to use them. I think Randy Newberg should bring back the Bull Moose party.

 

[Shrek]

The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago, and it’s purpose was to allow the citizens the means to overthrow a tyrannical gov’t. You think that can be done today with your .223 black rifle? Since we can’t own atomic weapons what is the purpose of it? Don’t think for a minute that argument won’t come back someday. So, the logical thing to do is make sure it doesn’t. Do we need 20 round clips? Not like you are going to need one to overthrow the gov’t, but to shoot up a mall it works great. Every time there’s a mass shooting with large capacity clips and black rifles WE look bad. The NRA is at fault too (and I’m a member but not for much longer). They try and scare gun owners about “registration”. Really, you don’t think they have other ways of finding out you own a gun? You registered on this site? Ever buy a hunting license, used a credit card for ammo? So what if the anti-gun crowd wants that, stop fighting and try to appear reasonable so we can win back the public who don’t understand what a black rifle is. We don’t need to convince the anti-gun folks anything, it’s the people in the middle we are fighting for who vote. And we seem to be losing the battle every time there’s a school shooting and the NRA says the solution is armed guards.

The real issue with a majority of mass shooting is mental health which is at a crisis stage in the US. So what has the NRA done for that besides rally against Obamacare? If they really want to defend our freedom we need a major mental health reform, but that’s going to cost money so is at odds with their political base. Demographics change and I’m not sure being anti-gun is the negative it once was. When that happens we are all in big trouble, and we can thank the NRA for it’s hard line and often illogical stance. That’s why after being a member for 30 years I’m bowing out (plus the NRA pretending to be a pro hunting and conservation organization).

We can't all have nuclear arms so there is no point is completely false. Even if the political elite could convince the military to attack Americans demanding their rights nuclear weapons are useless for maintaining meaningful power. The federal interal security apparatus is way too big but still relatively small and the portion that would be willing to confront the organic popular militia. As long as there are millions of patriots willing to stand up and fight and have relatively equivalent arms as the federal security agents then there is no force option to the statis. If the population is unarmed then a small well armed security force can control many. We need to be as well armed as homeland security not the US Army.

 

[Trial153]

One things that should be painfully obvious is that we no longer have a government by and for the people. We have been bought and sold down the river.
On one hand we have the coddling and capitulation to a ever growing class of worthless people in the country who's only exist to leach off us. and on the other we have a corporate government partnership like history has never seen before. We the people are getting hammered on both fronts buy both parties .
If we allow these hacks to further erode the constitution then we are as good a done. I honestly don't see a political solution to what we face. We are going to need all the guns we can get and we better hope that a good portion of our military choose the right side to fight.

 

[jmez]

How are we defining mental health here? Statistics are very clear that people with mental illness are far more likely to be the victims of violent crime than the perpetrators.

 

[NEhunter]

Absolutely, without a doubt. We did it as colonists to found this country. The Afganis did it to Russia. The Koreans and the Vietnamese did it to us. And, I would argue, the Iraquis as well.


What size would you suggest? 10 seems to be the common compromise. So I guess the 1st ten people killed don't count. Not to mention the fact that reloading is pretty quick and easy, even with a revolver. This is arbitrary nonsense. Your dealing with the minutia of symptoms and not the actual problem/s.


We do?! How? I'm sorry, but I am not responsible for some sicko who wants to go shoot up a school or mall no matter how much you or the media want to blame me or others who believe in our Constitution.


I can't help you much if you think our Constitution is unreasonable and I'll never stop fighting for my and your Constitutional rights. However, there is the amendment process, so if you feel that strongly about it, have at it.




I'm not sure where your drawing these conclusions from. Guns sales and NCIS checks skyrocket every time there is a mass shooting. I couldn't get within 5' of the counter at my local gun store after Sandy Hook. I think, slowly but surely, we are winning the propaganda campaign against the 2nd amendment and against the black/assault rifle fallacy.


You've finally gotten off the symptom train and hit on one of the actual problems. I agree with you here.


I guess you didn't bother to try and answer your own questions. Here ya go:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...p-mcsallys-introduction-of-mental-health-bill
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortne...al-health-bill-gets-support-from-nra-n2035163
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nra-backed-bill-aims-keep-guns-mentally-ill/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/6/nra-embraces-senate-mental-health-bill/
Is that enough to convince you that the NRA is not mute on the subject of mental health and gun access?


I don't agree with everything the NRA does either nor any other organization or group I'm affiliated with. However, I can find enough common ground with them to make it well worth my while to support them. And I can find plenty of other organizations to support that fill in any of the perceived gaps as I see fit. I truly hope you reconsider your membership with the NRA. Or, at the very least, find an alternative organization that you like better that is going to fight for our 2nd amendment rights as hard and effectively as the NRA does.

Again.... Right on brother!!

 

[elkyinzer]

This whole division is kind of depressing especially as it projects into the future. Everything today seems to be about who can shout the loudest. We have the apocalyptic gun nuts on one side versus the fear-mongering liberals on the other and the reasonable folks in the middle being shouted to by each extreme that we are all wrong and must agree with their side.

I agree that the Constitution should be the principle that guides our Country but no reasonable person can believe that it can be perfectly applied to every situation or decision in this complex modern world. Further it has already been trampled all over chiefly through the world wars and globalized economy morphing us into the interventionist world police we have become. The Constitution clearly calls for a more isolationist foreign policy and had we stayed on that path the violent culture and weaponized dick measuring would be less prevalent than it is today.

I hope not to see too many more of these posts on the Rokslide as it brings out the worst in everyone and detracts from the discussion and creates a hostile environment for newcomers.

 

[Kevin Dill]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...gun-violence-has-fallen-since-1993-study-says

Even NPR acknowledges the fallacy of perceived increasing violence involving firearms.

 

[airlocksniffer]

This whole division is kind of depressing especially as it projects into the future. Everything today seems to be about who can shout the loudest. We have the apocalyptic gun nuts on one side versus the fear-mongering liberals on the other and the reasonable folks in the middle being shouted to by each extreme that we are all wrong and must agree with their side.

I agree that the Constitution should be the principle that guides our Country but no reasonable person can believe that it can be perfectly applied to every situation or decision in this complex modern world. Further it has already been trampled all over chiefly through the world wars and globalized economy morphing us into the interventionist world police we have become. The Constitution clearly calls for a more isolationist foreign policy and had we stayed on that path the violent culture and weaponized dick measuring would be less prevalent than it is today.

I hope not to see too many more of these posts on the Rokslide as it brings out the worst in everyone and detracts from the discussion and creates a hostile environment for newcomers.

Fully agree. People are more moderate and willing to talk about reasonable solutions that is displayed on these types of posts.

 

[jmez]

I think it has actually been pretty civil and good points have been raised on both sides. Certainly not what I would consider a hostile discussion by any means.

 

[jmez]

On the topic of socioeconomic status, I can't think of any recent mass shooters that were destitute and fighting for any type of survival. Culture has a much larger effect than economics.

 

[Hootsma]

I hope not to see too many more of these posts on the Rokslide as it brings out the worst in everyone and detracts from the discussion and creates a hostile environment for newcomers.

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think anyone has been shouting or hostile and I think everyone has been civil and respectful. I admit, that I added a few smart ass jabs, but there was no name calling or disrespectful conduct. And, I think as a whole we are pretty much on the same page. There were only of few who seemed to disagree with the general Constitutional / Bill of Rights / 2nd Amendment sentiments. And, that's their right as free Americans and I value our sparring back and forth. It gives me differing viewpoints which forces me to re-evaluate my positions and reconsider my opinions, and I'm grateful for the challenge. I would be proud to point new members to this thread to see how we handle controversial subjects. The 2nd amendment and changes to it affect all of us on this site. Where should we go to discuss it? As long as everyone remains civil and leaves the adhominem attacks out, I look forward to further controversial discussions on this site as they relate to our mutual interest of hunting.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I strongly disagree with this. I don't think anyone has been shouting or hostile and I think everyone has been civil and respectful. I admit, that I added a few smart ass jabs, but there was no name calling or disrespectful conduct. And, I think as a whole we are pretty much on the same page. There were only of few who seemed to disagree with the general Constitutional / Bill of Rights / 2nd Amendment sentiments. And, that's their right as free Americans and I value our sparring back and forth. It gives me differing viewpoints which forces me to re-evaluate my positions and reconsider my opinions, and I'm grateful for the challenge. I would be proud to point new members to this thread to see how we handle controversial subjects. The 2nd amendment and changes to it affect all of us on this site. Where should we go to discuss it? As long as everyone remains civil and leaves the adhominem attacks out, I look forward to further controversial discussions on this site as they relate to our mutual interest of hunting.

Fully agree as well. I'm sure Ryan and other mods really watch these threads to make sure it remains civll. Definitely one of the best parts about Rokslide. Although I do think these fairly divisive threads are more common when nobody is hunting. I myself am getting a little stir crazy!!

 

[5MilesBack]

I hope not to see too many more of these posts on the Rokslide as it brings out the worst in everyone and detracts from the discussion and creates a hostile environment for newcomers.

Actually I disagree. I think it brings out the best in us.......the stuff that really matters in life. All this hunting stuff and gear and crap is nothing compared to real life situations, decisions, and the future of our country and generations.

I think that it's sad that our elected officials feel good about making sure the top earners in this country pay as little in taxes as possible while paying for said cuts with the decimation of positive social programs.

Another fallacy......propaganda from the left. Stop listening to those whackjobs and do some research.

 

[dotman]

Actually I disagree. I think it brings out the best in us.......the stuff that really matters in life. All this hunting stuff and gear and crap is nothing compared to real life situations, decisions, and the future of our country and generations.



Another fallacy......propaganda from the left. Stop listening to those whackjobs and do some research.

I agree completely, we may not all agree but man is it annoying when people get hurt over a disagreement and ruin open and honest discussions, this really has become a problem in our country.

We do not all have to agree people, sorry but hunting and shooting have become a political issue and if you can't handle that don't be disappointed when you lose both of these rights. It has never been a better time to join a conservation org and the NRA.

If it offends you to hear others discuss issues on our rights and our freedoms, which also affect hunting and shooting, it might be a good time to move to CA . In the end everyone agrees on the major points but man I hope the mods don't Kuiu a great thread. Political issues are just as important to discuss as gear and killing animals, hunting and shooting whether you like it or not are now political issues and we as hunters need to get more involved and show our support, not just sit back and talk about gear and killing game.

 

[Hootsma]

I think that it's sad that our elected officials feel good about making sure the top earners in this country pay as little in taxes as possible while paying for said cuts with the decimation of positive social programs.

This is a very old talking point which I haven't heard in a while. I thought because it's been so thoroughly debunked that no one would bother with it anymore. I guess I was wrong. So, here ya go:

Quoted from the image: "The top 10% of income earners pay 68% of all federal income taxes in 2011, though they earned 45% of all income. The bottom 50% paid 3% of income taxes, but earned 12% of the income." What the heck do you consider to be their fair share?!!
"Federal welfare spending has grown by 32 percent over the past four years, fattened by President Obama’s stimulus spending and swelled by a growing number of Americans whose recession-depleted incomes now qualify them for public assistance, according to numbers released Thursday."
That quote comes from this link:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...pending-jumps-32-percent-four-years/?page=all
So, exactly what cuts are you referring to?

My dad hated using SNAP and got off of it as soon as we were able to get jobs in high school and help out.

This is how welfare was intended to be viewed and used. And I applaud your dad for taking responsibility for himself and his family and fixing his financial issues. Unfortunately, in this day and age, welfare is looked at as an entitlement and severely abused by people who have the ability to support themselves, but refuse to do so.

When did the inner city ghetto's really become prevalent? Started with Reagan and his "trickle down" theory of economics.

Where the heck did you get this notion from?! Ghettos have been around since this countries beginning. Here is a quote from Wickepedia on black ghettos:
"Many of these neighborhoods are located in Northern cities where African Americans moved during The Great Migration (1914–1950) a period when over a million[18] African Americans moved out of the rural Southern United States to escape the widespread racism of the South, to seek out employment opportunities in urban environments, and to pursue what was widely perceived to be a better quality of life in the North.[18]" Poverty and ghettos were here long before Reagan took office.

I do think people should be able to put in a full day's work and make enough money to have a home, have food on the table, maybe have a hobby, regardless of what they do.

Why? This is the end result of the participation trophy generation. I just have to show up and I get my trophy or living wage or welfare or whatever. As a free and responsible people, we have to accept that decisions and actions, or lack there of, have consequences. If all you're willing to do is flip burgers at McDonalds and earn the minimum wage, then financially, life if going to be tough. If you work hard, are reliable, take on more responsibility, learn more skills, you can be paid more and have more options financially. The choice is ours. Nothing is guaranteed in this life. Why do you think this should be?

I find it ironical that you complain about the government being corrupt and greedy and immoral (which I totally agree with you), yet your political leanings are towards larger and larger government. How is feeding the beast going to solve the problem. If we went back to the basics of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, repealed the 17th amendment and added a term limits amendment for our senators and congressmen, it would shrink the government drastically and severely limit it's ability for corruption and greed.

 

[airlocksniffer]

If we went back to the basics of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, repealed the 17th amendment and added a term limits amendment for our senators and congressmen, it would shrink the government drastically and severely limit it's ability for corruption and greed.

Yep, don't forget Citizens United/campaign finance reform. On 17a, what if the issue with that? I was under the impression it was to give states with less population more of a say in the Senate. If 17a was repealed and the shots were called by CA, NY, etc, we'd lose guns a heck of a lot faster.