Everyone ready for lockdown 2.0?

[BBob]

I don’t recall any topic that has felt so political as corona virus. What the experts “recommend” changes almost The media has actually been pressing the CDC director a little on this, and her answers make zero sense.

It's actually amazing they are asking anything at all. CDC hasn't released any data (not any that I've found yet) to support the new suggested mandates. Let's see if they can back it up with "science"

Edit: I have been following data a little on the Delta variant breakthrough infections and children so lets see if and how the CDC spins the message.

 

[roadrunner]

There is no science behind any of this. Science does not set policy, waste of space politicians do.

Science will tell you this virus is trending like viruses do. Science has nothing to do with wearing a mask after the science has been implemented in the form of a vaccine.

Why "we" are afraid of dirt bag politicians is puzzling...

 

[Mike7]

That gave me a good laugh. Guy has no idea how genetics works.

Not sayin every detail is correct in the overall cartoon, but the genetic part was a pretty basic overview. What genetic part did he get wrong?

 

[JohnJohnson]

Not sayin every detail is correct in the overall cartoon, but the genetic part was pretty a basic overview. What genetic part did he get wrong?

Clearly doesn't understand how viruses work on a basic level if he doesn't get that inducing the production of the spike protein does not produce a functional virus. Retroviruses require certain things to replicate and function, among them reverse transcriptase / envelope proteins and some others. The nanoparticles are liposomes and they don't "punch holes" in cells, that would kill the cells. He's either being willfully dishonest about the chemicals or similarly doesn't understand them either. Know what most people call "sodium chloride"? Salt, like the salt you have in your salt shaker. The "chemicals" he's referring to like tromethamine are there to stabilize the mRNA and keep it from degrading. mRNA has an extra hydroxyl group when compared to its more stable counterpart DNA (hence DNA's name starting with "deoxy" indicating that missing hydroxyl group). That extra hydroxyl group renders it prone to hydrolysis in alkaline conditions, which is why the tromethamine is there to make the solution more acidic to keep it from doing that. Of course that instability just means it's easier for mRNA to degrade but even if it did degrade it wouldn't cause bad things to happen to a person. It would just make that vaccine dose useless and unlikely to provoke the immune response we want a vaccine to.

"the mRNA bypasses your dna" <- what does that even mean lol. It would bypass your DNA if the mRNA contained "instructions" from protein-coding genes in your genome, but the vaccine mRNA codes for the spike protein of the virus. So it does not come from your genome anyway. Unless he thinks that "normal" vaccines give you viruses which then integrate into your genome and produce themselves from there. Which isn't how regular vaccines work either.

Then there's his lack of understanding of how cancer works and how the vaccine could cause other genetics anomalies. I could go on for awhile but I hope that was a good taste test.

 

[camping1601]

Lets not forget the audits guys.

 

[Elkdreamer]

All that I need to know is that the government is trying to force the vaccines on me.

I will get lead poisoning before that stuff gets injected into me.

 

[camping1601]

I remember watching a CNN clip at the time many states were starting to open up. They stated we need to hurry up with the vaccine so we can link it to the states opening.

Eyes wide open folks.

 

[Mike7]

Clearly doesn't understand how viruses work on a basic level if he doesn't get that inducing the production of the spike protein does not produce a functional virus. Retroviruses require certain things to replicate and function, among them reverse transcriptase / envelope proteins and some others. The nanoparticles are liposomes and they don't "punch holes" in cells, that would kill the cells. He's either being willfully dishonest about the chemicals or similarly doesn't understand them either. Know what most people call "sodium chloride"? Salt, like the salt you have in your salt shaker. The "chemicals" he's referring to like tromethamine are there to stabilize the mRNA and keep it from degrading. mRNA has an extra hydroxyl group when compared to its more stable counterpart DNA (hence DNA's name starting with "deoxy" indicating that missing hydroxyl group). That extra hydroxyl group renders it prone to hydrolysis in alkaline conditions, which is why the tromethamine is there to make the solution more acidic to keep it from doing that. Of course that instability just means it's easier for mRNA to degrade but even if it did degrade it wouldn't cause bad things to happen to a person. It would just make that vaccine dose useless and unlikely to provoke the immune response we want a vaccine to.

"the mRNA bypasses your dna" <- what does that even mean lol. It would bypass your DNA if the mRNA contained "instructions" from protein-coding genes in your genome, but the vaccine mRNA codes for the spike protein of the virus. So it does not come from your genome anyway. Unless he thinks that "normal" vaccines give you viruses which then integrate into your genome and produce themselves from there. Which isn't how regular vaccines work either.

Then there's his lack of understanding of how cancer works and how the vaccine could cause other genetics anomalies. I could go on for awhile but I hope that was a good taste test.

Wow, you don't talk to normal people outside the lab much huh?

Clearly it is an ad that takes some dramatic license...not unlike some govt ads.

Whether you say the liposome shuttles the mRNA or punches it into the cell, does that really make that big of a difference in a cartoon?

And if I remember right, he said that the vaccine produces spike protein and not whole virus.

And, if the vaccine uses mRNA to "high jack" your own cell's machinery, did not that skip your own DNA in the process...remember talking to non-science nerds.

Of course he is exaggerating the chemical names, but how does that make him know nothing about genetics?

How many unstudied things have been promoted as safe throughout recent history and then found to cause cancer. Of course he is being a little hyperbolic, but are you really okay with someone packaging up some new chemicals or radiation containing particles and shuttling them into your cytoplasm?

 

[JohnJohnson]

Whether you say the liposome shuttles the mRNA or punches it into the cell, does that really make that big of a difference in a cartoon?

And, if the vaccine uses mRNA to "high jack" your own cell's machinery, did not that skip your own DNA in the process...remember talking to non-science nerds.

Of course he is being a little hyperbolic, but are you really okay with someone packaging up some new chemicals or radiation containing particles and shuttling them into your cytoplasm?

1. I'd say the phrasing of "punching holes" instead of being transported into your cell does actually matter. Punching a hole in a cell would be catastrophic and most people would interpret it as a bad thing.

2. No it does not skip your own DNA for the reasons I outlined in my post. Your DNA codes for proteins which you produce. You do not produce the coronavirus spike protein. Essentially what normally happens is an inert or dead virus (which at that point is just a chain of amino acids without any ability to do the things living viruses do) is put in a vaccine or maybe just some viral pieces in protein form, like an envelope protein or a spike protein. The covid vaccine uses mRNA which is the precursor to a protein, and is what retroviruses start as anyway. It's then translated into the viral spike protein (not a functioning virus, just a piece of it called an epitope that the immune system can recognize like the pieces in normal vaccines). None of this has anything to do with your own DNA. Your DNA would have never coded for that piece of coronavirus. It is not being bypassed.

DNA -> mRNA -> Protein

Your DNA is here, it will never code for the viral epitopes being presented to your immune system by new or traditional vaccines, whether mRNA or protein.
The covid vaccine starts here with mRNA of a small piece of the larger covid virus, it just needs to be translated into a protein.
Conventional vaccines start here by giving your cell that protein directly for presentation to your immune system.

3. Liposomes are not new and neither is mRNA. This is a new combination of two things that are well studied and given what I know about genetics/immunity I'm okay with the almost negligible risk of taking the vaccine. I'm not going to browbeat people to go get it because it's not my place. Hence why I didn't chime in earlier in the thread. I just would prefer if people who are vaccine hesitant/averse stop citing science they clearly don't fully understand because it annoys me to see it misinterpreted, sometimes willfully.

 

[cmahoney]

Clearly doesn't understand how viruses work on a basic level if he doesn't get that inducing the production of the spike protein does not produce a functional virus. Retroviruses require certain things to replicate and function, among them reverse transcriptase / envelope proteins and some others. The nanoparticles are liposomes and they don't "punch holes" in cells, that would kill the cells. He's either being willfully dishonest about the chemicals or similarly doesn't understand them either. Know what most people call "sodium chloride"? Salt, like the salt you have in your salt shaker. The "chemicals" he's referring to like tromethamine are there to stabilize the mRNA and keep it from degrading. mRNA has an extra hydroxyl group when compared to its more stable counterpart DNA (hence DNA's name starting with "deoxy" indicating that missing hydroxyl group). That extra hydroxyl group renders it prone to hydrolysis in alkaline conditions, which is why the tromethamine is there to make the solution more acidic to keep it from doing that. Of course that instability just means it's easier for mRNA to degrade but even if it did degrade it wouldn't cause bad things to happen to a person. It would just make that vaccine dose useless and unlikely to provoke the immune response we want a vaccine to.

"the mRNA bypasses your dna"
Then there's his lack of understanding of how cancer works and how the vaccine could cause other genetics anomalies. I could go on for awhile but I hope that was a good taste test.

Exactly


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[gelton]

1. I'd say the phrasing of "punching holes" instead of being transported into your cell does actually matter. Punching a hole in a cell would be catastrophic and most people would interpret it as a bad thing.

2. No it does not skip your own DNA for the reasons I outlined in my post. Your DNA codes for proteins which you produce. You do not produce the coronavirus spike protein. Essentially what normally happens is an inert or dead virus (which at that point is just a chain of amino acids without any ability to do the things living viruses do) is put in a vaccine or maybe just some viral pieces in protein form, like an envelope protein or a spike protein. The covid vaccine uses mRNA which is the precursor to a protein, and is what retroviruses start as anyway. It's then translated into the viral spike protein (not a functioning virus, just a piece of it called an epitope that the immune system can recognize like the pieces in normal vaccines). None of this has anything to do with your own DNA. Your DNA would have never coded for that piece of coronavirus. It is not being bypassed.

DNA -> mRNA -> Protein

Your DNA is here, it will never code for the viral epitopes being presented to your immune system by new or traditional vaccines, whether mRNA or protein.
The covid vaccine starts here with mRNA of a small piece of the larger covid virus, it just needs to be translated into a protein.
Conventional vaccines start here by giving your cell that protein directly for presentation to your immune system.

3. Liposomes are not new and neither is mRNA. This is a new combination of two things that are well studied and given what I know about genetics/immunity I'm okay with the almost negligible risk of taking the vaccine. I'm not going to browbeat people to go get it because it's not my place. Hence why I didn't chime in earlier in the thread. I just would prefer if people who are vaccine hesitant/averse stop citing science they clearly don't fully understand because it annoys me to see it misinterpreted, sometimes willfully.

What are your thoughts on why, after decades of testing, MRNA was never approved? You mention they are not new, but fail to point out it was never approved, even after several trials.

Also, why did companies like Moderna do everything they could to distance themselves from the "Gene Therapy" categorization in their SEC filings?

Also, the Pfizer contract tells us a bunch more than the FDA and CDC is willing to let onto -

 

[Crowmangler]

Here's something I've said to my friends for months: No one in the media or Pedo Joe has ever given credit to Trump for Operation Warp Speed that developed the "vaccine".
I'd put my tin foil hat on & say that whenever they find out that the shots don't work for shit they'll fall all over themselves to hang it on him.
Well guess what? This afternoon ol' hair sniffer gave credit to Trump for developing the vaccines.

 

[JohnJohnson]

What are your thoughts on why, after decades of testing, MRNA was never approved? You mention they are not new, but fail to point out it was never approved, even after several trials.

Also, why did companies like Moderna do everything they could to distance themselves from the "Gene Therapy" categorization in their SEC filings?

Also, the Pfizer contract tells us a bunch more than the FDA and CDC is willing to let onto -

1. There are 10+ mRNA vaccines currently in the late stages of the trial process. The more pressing need from Covid-19 accelerated the process for Moderna/Pfizer but realistically you're going to see more of them approved in the next 5 years unrelated to covid-19. And the testing for those is over a much longer time period. Most of the issue with vaccine trials is getting volunteers and other administrative crap that has nothing to do with science at all. With covid there was an abundance of volunteers that's for sure. As for why a few previously failed, 90-95% of drugs going through the FDA process fail for one reason or another (not always for safety reasons either). So it's unsurprising that a few have failed before this.

2. Gene therapy isn't really an applicable categorization for a vaccine because gene therapies aren't for the same purpose as a vaccine. Usually a gene therapy is trying to correct (either by inhibiting or supplementing) the function of some defective protein. In the case of a certain percentage of cystic fibrosis patients for instance, you can mostly correct the defective CFTR protein's function and allow them to live a relatively normal life with 60-70% of the lung function a normal person has. This is opposed to the normal progression of cystic fibrosis where it gets worse and they just die. Vaccines are trying to provoke an immune response from your body which is a totally different goal than what gene therapies are generally used for.

3. I can tell you with certainty that I am wholly unqualified to speculate about liability and other legal stuff like that. Looks like they're covering their asses like you have to if you want to remain in business in the US. But again, I'm not a lawyer and this is kind of out of my comfort zone. I have a very narrow area of expertise and it's not that.

 

[ODB]

Here's something I've said to my friends for months: No one in the media or Pedo Joe has ever given credit to Trump for Operation Warp Speed that developed the "vaccine".
I'd put my tin foil hat on & say that whenever they find out that the shots don't work for shit they'll fall all over themselves to hang it on him.
Well guess what? This afternoon ol' hair sniffer gave credit to Trump for developing the vaccines.

This story is not aging well...https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/15/957261530/biden-administration-will-rename-operation-warp-speed-citing-trump-failures


The last pgf:

"The Biden transition team has said it wants to distribute 100 million vaccine doses during the administration's first 100 days in office. Psaki said Kessler "will focus on maximizing the current supply of vaccines and work with manufacturers to help get more vaccines online as quickly as possible."

For the record, on the day this article was posted, Jan 15, 2021, there were 1.2 million doses administered. That means when Biden took office on Jan 20th, the US, because of the efforts of the Trump admin were on track to beat Biden's 'plan' already.

Vaxxes peaked on April and began to precipitously decline after April 15. What happened around April 15th? The Johnson and Johnson vax rollout was paused, causing people to second guess vaxxes at all. Also, cases of myocarditis were reported with the Phizer vax. For all their arrogance, the admin very poorly addressed this concern - they simply failed to mitigate vax hesitancy due to this - it is on THEM.

The point? Trump did what he said he would do. He was RIGHT that a vax would be ready by the end of the year when the CDC head said it wouldn't be ready until Q3 2021! Media loved that controversy.

By the way, if you have your two-dose CDC vax card, flip it over and look at the bottom left corner. You will see a date: 9/03/2020. That would be the revision date of that card. That means that in September of 2020, the CDC knew there would be a two-dose vax available to the point they had their graphic department make these cards. Why would the CDC say they wouldn't be available for another year? Dunno - but I think it had something to do with politics... just sayin'

 

[gelton]

1. There are 10+ mRNA vaccines currently in the late stages of the trial process. The more pressing need from Covid-19 accelerated the process for Moderna/Pfizer but realistically you're going to see more of them approved in the next 5 years unrelated to covid-19. And the testing for those is over a much longer time period. Most of the issue with vaccine trials is getting volunteers and other administrative crap that has nothing to do with science at all. With covid there was an abundance of volunteers that's for sure.

2. Gene therapy isn't really an applicable categorization for a vaccine because gene therapies aren't really for the same purpose as a vaccine. Usually a gene therapy is trying to correct (either by inhibiting or supplementing) the expression of some defective protein. In the case of a certain percentage of cystic fibrosis patients for instance, you can mostly correct the defective CFTR protein's function and allow them to live a relatively normal life with 60-70% of the lung function a normal person has. This is opposed to the normal progression of cystic fibrosis where it gets worse and they just die. Vaccines are trying to provoke an immune response from your body which is a totally different goal than what gene therapies are generally used for.

3. I can tell you with certainty that I am wholly unqualified to speculate about liability and other legal stuff like that. Looks like they're covering their asses like you have to if you want to remain in business in the US. But again, I'm not a lawyer and this is kind of out of my comfort zone. I have a very narrow area of expertise and it's not that.

Thanks for the well-thought-out response. I am just going to say that I don't think anyone has enough information to make an informed decision at this point. Just look at all of the waffling going on between our own CDC and Fauci.

It's my opinion that both sides have likely been fooled in our hypothesis (because that's what they are no matter what side they are coming from).

It could be that the side that I belong to was fooled by the improbable chance of dying from the infection because the PCR tests gave so many false positives that the death rates were grossly underreported, and the virus was much more deadly than they are letting on. I think, given the current climate, this is highly unlikely but I could be wrong.

On the other side - the vaccine evangelists think that the unvaccinated are ground zero for any future cases/deaths but at the same time deny the reality of natural herd immunity. To me, if herd immunity isn't a thing then neither are vaccines. They are intimately related and anyone claiming otherwise is also admitting that vaccines are also ineffective at preventing viral infection.

Funny that in the age of information, every aspect of this situation seems to be intentionally hidden.

 

[ODB]

. There are 10+ mRNA vaccines currently in the late stages of the trial process. The more pressing need from Covid-19 accelerated the process for Moderna/Pfizer but realistically you're going to see more of them approved in the next 5 years unrelated to covid-19.

Yup. mRNA ain't going anywhere.

As a dude who intends on spending one hell of a lot more time in Africa, the mRNA research relative to malaria is worth keeping an eye on: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/06/210618091723.htm

 

[Mike7]

1. There are 10+ mRNA vaccines currently in the late stages of the trial process. The more pressing need from Covid-19 accelerated the process for Moderna/Pfizer but realistically you're going to see more of them approved in the next 5 years unrelated to covid-19. And the testing for those is over a much longer time period. Most of the issue with vaccine trials is getting volunteers and other administrative crap that has nothing to do with science at all. With covid there was an abundance of volunteers that's for sure. As for why a few previously failed, 90-95% of drugs going through the FDA process fail for one reason or another (not always for safety reasons either). So it's unsurprising that a few have failed before this.

2. Gene therapy isn't really an applicable categorization for a vaccine because gene therapies aren't for the same purpose as a vaccine. Usually a gene therapy is trying to correct (either by inhibiting or supplementing) the function of some defective protein. In the case of a certain percentage of cystic fibrosis patients for instance, you can mostly correct the defective CFTR protein's function and allow them to live a relatively normal life with 60-70% of the lung function a normal person has. This is opposed to the normal progression of cystic fibrosis where it gets worse and they just die. Vaccines are trying to provoke an immune response from your body which is a totally different goal than what gene therapies are generally used for.

3. I can tell you with certainty that I am wholly unqualified to speculate about liability and other legal stuff like that. Looks like they're covering their asses like you have to if you want to remain in business in the US. But again, I'm not a lawyer and this is kind of out of my comfort zone. I have a very narrow area of expertise and it's not that.

Agree with what you write here and I would never call this "gene therapy", but my only attempted point was that just because you are not willing to compare the normal process of protein production in cells (that is coded for by DNA in the nucleus & mitochondria) to how these mRNA vaccines work to produce spike protein in a cell on a cartoon, doesn't mean that the producer doesn't understand basic genetics.

I personally think the vaccine technology is brilliant and amazing from what I understand, but sometimes great technology is not used wisely.

What Operation Warp Speed did great in my view was to streamline development and logistics for these products in an unprecedented way in an emergency situation, even if the emergency was partly of our own doing due to lock downs.

But what we would invariably be left with in this situation is a largely unknown quantity in medical development and testing terms that carries greater risk.

Hopefully everything works out okay, but I feel like we have done a poor job exercising wisdom with the subsequent use of this product.

All history and indications are that natural immunity to this virus in low risk populations might be safer and more durable than a vaccine tested barely at all, but we still have bureaucrats pushing these vaccines on everyone in an unprecedented way at warp speed, with many clinicians just going along.

Those who question the wisdom of the utilization of these current vaccines for low risk groups or of vaccine mandates are being ostracized by policy makers and intimidated by big corporations at the urging of the govt/pharma cooperative instead of being thoughtfully debated. That is not a good sign.

 

[SuperFred05]

Screw that man. Don’t need a lockdown when you live in the middle of nowhere.


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[Sportsdad80]

Where’s everything closing!?!? Many things still open here!!


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[roadrunner]

Where’s everything closing!?!? Many things still open here!!


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The process is starting. The same statements were made over a year ago that ended up killing thousands of jobs, businesses, and people.