Ethics vs Excitement

[TheTone]

It has to be a dry fly though. Showing a dirty Ol’ nymph would be embarrassing.

No one started fly fishing because they wanted to nymph

 

[Newtosavage]

No one started fly fishing because they wanted to nymph

Or use tiny little bobbers.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

This thread is awesome... I want to throw in my random archery pic too.

View attachment 401201
Just look at the monster two-point!

I like to call them 11 pointers.

 

[tim tarras]

And good looking women…

Beat me to it! I was going to add sex

these 2 also depend on how much alcohol is involved.....

 

[roosiebull]

I’ll preface with this. I wouldn’t presume what range or shooting scenario is appropriate for another hunter. I just know bad shooting when I see (or hear) it.

It’d be interesting to hear your take on a couple of things I witnessed last year.

1- I spotted a small group of elk just after first light and ranged them at around 600 yds. That’s too far for me, especially with the rifle I was carrying. It’s also a little beyond what I’ll try with any rifle I own. I made a quick plan and started a stalk when a rifle fired. The elk reacted and started to run. The rifle fired again, then a 3rd time. They were firing at the back end of the elk as they fled in a relatively tight group. The elk ran uphill into the trees and I didn’t see one go down. I located two hunters and estimated that they were probably even farther away than I was but from a different angle. I sat down and watched through my binocular as the two hiked up and kicked around the area where the elk were for about 15 minutes. Apparently they didn’t find blood as they turned and headed back, in the opposite direction of where the elk ran. I went up and also found no blood. I can only speculate on what happened and have my own theory.

2- I was at my truck getting some food to head back out for a few days when a UTV went flying by and up a rough 4x4 road that ends at a closed gate near a meadow. There were 3-4 hunters in the UTV. My memory of the exact details on timing and number of shots is imperfect. I believe it was 15-20 minutes later the shots started ringing. I bet they shot at least a dozen times. Another 15-20 minutes later the same group came back down and passed my truck. One of them looked over at me and sort of shrugged in the “what are ya gonna do” fashion. I ended up staying in the truck that night. They never went back up. again, I have a theory.

What do you think (given what I said) happened in both instances?

I think some people get so excited about filling a tag, and loath the idea of going home empty handed so much, that the importance of making high confidence shots can be forgotten.

i think a lot of people are so self centered that they think they are owed something by being there, which leads to hail mary shots they have no business taking.... that's the vibe i get from these scenarios, and see it a lot. getting worse all of the time, and basically no courtesy..... overall, the new generation of hunters kinda suck. of course there are still a lot of good folks out there who do have courtesy, and aren't looking for a desperation shot, but they seem to be turning into the minority.

 

[roosiebull]

With a recurve you get quadruple points.

more than that.....

the 2 years in the past 18 i didn't kill a roosie with my bow were spent with my recurve killing random vegetation behind and under bulls.... not just a fern here or salmonberry there.... the second season was an improvement though, i only missed 3 bulls instead of 4

 

[Marbles]

i think a lot of people are so self centered that they think they are owed something by being there, which leads to hail mary shots they have no business taking.... that's the vibe i get from these scenarios, and see it a lot. getting worse all of the time, and basically no courtesy..... overall, the new generation of hunters kinda suck. of course there are still a lot of good folks out there who do have courtesy, and aren't looking for a desperation shot, but they seem to be turning into the minority.

Sorry, the "new generation" learned it from the "old" generation. Plus, you can find plenty of old dudes that hunt like that. The issue in not age, it is a pampered and entitled culture.

The success of the outdoor industry at getting people outside has made it more noticeable and where more turds are willing to push in further, which makes it harder to get away from.

 

[roosiebull]

Sorry, the "new generation" learned it from the "old" generation. Plus, you can find plenty of old dudes that hunt like that. The issue in not age, it is a pampered and entitled culture.

The success of the outdoor industry at getting people outside has made it more noticeable and where more turds are willing to push in further, which makes it harder to get away from.

i generally agree with your assessment, but i think a lot of the newer generation were taught by social media vs the old generation, but i have ran into plenty of old turds, both in and out of the woods.... i guess just the big increase in interest makes the probability of running into hunters with no respect for anything or anyone.

i totally agree with pampered and entitled culture, and i'm afraid we ain't seen nothing yet considering the trajectory

 

[S-3 ranch]

it’s absolutely incredible the garbage people pull when hunting game out west, trying shots that are difficult at best impossible most. Shooting over other hunters, driving utv around barricades
why Wyoming and Montana hunters are prone to unethical behavior
is beyond me !
and don’t get me started on entitlement of federal land

 

[Wyobohunter]

more than that.....

the 2 years in the past 18 i didn't kill a roosie with my bow were spent with my recurve killing random vegetation behind and under bulls.... not just a fern here or salmonberry there.... the second season was an improvement though, i only missed 3 bulls instead of 4

I wounded a Muley with my recurve many years ago. I didn’t feel great about the shot and put it right through the guts. I tracked him for a long time but never recovered. I still wish I could take that arrow back. I’ve never missed a shot (bow or rifle) that I’ve felt very confident about. Self imposed limitations are a good thing.

 

[Wyobohunter]

it’s absolutely incredible the garbage people pull when hunting game out west, trying shots that are difficult at best impossible most. Shooting over other hunters, driving utv around barricades
why Wyoming and Montana hunters are prone to unethical behavior
is beyond me !
and don’t get me started on entitlement of federal land

It’s not limited to people from any particular state or region. Admittedly I’d probably “remember” unethical behavior from NR’s and you’d “remember” it from the states you go to. I bet most people can share an anecdote or two; we mostly prefer to share the ones that make “them” look bad and “us” look good. It’s a base instinct that comes with tribalism.

 

[S-3 ranch]

It’s not limited to people from any particular state or region. Admittedly I’d probably “remember” unethical behavior from NR’s and you’d “remember” it from the states you go to. I bet most people can share an anecdote or two; we mostly prefer to share the ones that make “them” look bad and “us” look good. It’s a base instinct that comes with tribalism.

Yeah we get some NR hunters that say “ I kill elk every year with my 6.5 cm @ 700-1000 yards “ then proceeded to empty the gun @ a chip shot aoudad ram or nice pronghorn, it’s easy to remember disappointing hunters

 

[MosquitoCoast]

It’s not limited to people from any particular state or region. Admittedly I’d probably “remember” unethical behavior from NR’s and you’d “remember” it from the states you go to. I bet most people can share an anecdote or two; we mostly prefer to share the ones that make “them” look bad and “us” look good. It’s a base instinct that comes with tribalism.

Did you ever tell us what your theory was on the OP? Maybe I scanned over it.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Two point? Does that spike have kickers?

Good catch. He is a monster 1x2!

 

[Ryan Avery]

I wounded a Muley with my recurve many years ago. I didn’t feel great about the shot and put it right through the guts. I tracked him for a long time but never recovered. I still wish I could take that arrow back. I’ve never missed a shot (bow or rifle) that I’ve felt very confident about. Self imposed limitations are a good thing.

I went on a stick bow only kick for about six years. I finally gave it up because I was not proficient enough with it. IMO most people should not hunt with a stick bow. If you don't believe me go tag along with a group of trad guys at a 3D shoot.

 

[Wyobohunter]

I went on a stick bow only kick for about six years. I finally gave it up because I was not proficient enough with it. IMO most people should not hunt with a stick bow. If you don't believe me go tag along with a group of trad guys at a 3D shoot.

Or, just severely limit your own range. When I’m in practice I still only feel good about shots under 20 yards. I emphasize in practice because it’s not something I can just pick up and go do. Not that I can or would do that with my compound. It’s just a whole new level of dedication for 1/2 the effective range.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Did you ever tell us what your theory was on the OP? Maybe I scanned over it.

#1- I don’t know if they were trying to “beat me to the punch”. They may not have even known I was there. I do know it was terrible shooting. I was about 600 yards and I’m pretty sure they were farther than that. They weren’t shooting over me, they were perpendicular. First shot a complete miss and the ethics of taking it could be argued either way. Not a shot I’d take though. “Flock” shooting at them as they ran is a no brainer a-hole move.

#2- They way the group went flying up the road makes me think they somehow knew there were elk. Possibly a friend had a radio and tipped them off (illegal as hell if that’s the case). I didn’t count heads going up or back. There were people in the front and back seats. Two in front for sure, at least one in back. Anyway, the fact that they flew up the road and shot about 12 times makes me theorize that they were taking desperation shots. That fact that they came back down so quickly, empty handed, and didn’t go back up tells me they didn’t try to recover at all. Again, just my theory based on the circumstances.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Or, just severely limit your own range. When I’m in practice I still only feel good about shots under 20 yards. I emphasize in practice because it’s not something I can just pick up and go do. Not that I can or would do that with my compound. It’s just a whole new level of dedication for 1/2 the effective range.

Even then most people suck at it in the moment of truth. I ran the Iron deer stage one year. Out of 62 trad shots, only 5 made it at 21 yards.

 

[Wyobohunter]

Yeah we get some NR hunters that say “ I kill elk every year with my 6.5 cm @ 700-1000 yards “ then proceeded to empty the gun @ a chip shot aoudad ram or nice pronghorn, it’s easy to remember disappointing hunters

We’re these people hunting inside a high fence? I wonder about anyone that’d do a high fence “hunt”. I don’t really consider it unethical and don’t think it should be illegal. I just consider it trophy shopping more than hunting. Maybe not the case here though.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

We’re these people hunting inside a high fence? I wonder about anyone that’d do a high fence “hunt”. I don’t really consider it unethical and don’t think it should be illegal. I just consider it trophy shopping more than hunting. Maybe not the case here though.

Depends on how much area is enclosed.

20’x20’ = going to the butcher

Thousands of acres fenced in and animals can go where they want = potential true hunt

Folks (generic) tend to be ok with hunting in Africa which often is high fence (just with a lot of acreage enclosed). Hypocritical to be ok with it there but rail against it in North America.