Ethics Archery All Aluminum Durability

[CodeMonkey]

Anyone shoot the Ethics .204 system with the aluminum sleeve and post? How does it hold up over time? Ideally I'd go with steel, but it looks like the extra weight means I'll have to go up a spine, which throws my entire arrow build off.

 

[OR Archer]

What’s your targeted total weight for the insert/collar?

 

[CodeMonkey]

What’s your targeted total weight for the insert/collar?

Long story short, I'm trying to replicate or get close to my current BE Rampage build of a 125 grain head + 51 grain halfout (this set up is flirting with being underspined). The halfouts suck and I have a collection of arrows in my basement where they've developed a small crack right after the insert after hitting anything remotely hard (even a cold 3D target). I'd like to go to a 100 grain head for more options as well.

As a result I'm considering the Victory Shok TL (75 grain) that looks to be a slightly better halfout design (sleeves over the shaft) or the Ethics system at 70 grains total (aluminum sleeve and post).

I have also considered the IW system, but the collars cost nearly $6 each. I've also thought of trying to duplicate the IW system using something like VPA or Ethics sleeves, but I can't come up with 75ish grains that way.

I'm not panicking yet (still have about 100+ days until opening day), but I spent the offseason convincing myself to go to the X Impact and honestly can't stomach the thought of ordering another dozen. I have a separate thread of me trying to track down noise issues I'm having with them and honestly they don't fly that much better for me to justify the increased cost over the Rampage.

 

[OR Archer]

Not sure if they allow mix and match but you could go with the 55-85gr aluminum and pair it with a 60gr SS sleeve. You could get it to a total of 205 up front which would be the closest to your current 175 that I could see with their 204 offerings. The SS sleeve should offer enough protection for the front to withstand most impacts.

 

[Zac]

You could get there easily with 25 grain IW HIT and 25 grain IW collar.

 

[CodeMonkey]

You could get there easily with 25 grain IW HIT and 25 grain IW collar.

The more I hem/haw about it, the more likely I am to just accept the cost of the IW system. At the end of the day, it's probably the most proven system out there and Bill might be the only person who shoots a bow that's more OCD than I am.

 

[OR Archer]

Another option is 50gr brass with the 25IW collar then drop to the 100 gr head you wanted to do. Little less expensive but still very durable

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Another option is 50gr brass with the 25IW collar then drop to the 100 gr head you wanted to do. Little less expensive but still very durable

+1, this is what I do, IW inserts are top notch I’m sure, but had zero durability issues out of the brass/IW collar combo.

 

[aaen]

Having done exactly what you did different arrow setup, I tried all of ethics components multiple times for my easton axis arrows. To say the least I haven't been overly impressed with durability long-term. The posts seem to last but the footers/collars bend easily on me ( a visible line would start around the collar where I imagine the internal post seated, then soon after they would bend or breakand yes there was no voids). What found to be the issue was the Tolerances on the footers were all over the place. Some fit tight some were looser and in the same batches on the same arrow (dry fit).

If I was.doing it all over I'd go the iron will root for the inserts and footers.


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[mtnkid85]

I quickly ditched my all aluminum 65g Ethics setup. Bent too easily. Im now running the 75gr Victory Shok TL and have been pleased with them. I built a dozen last year and am just now assembling another dozen for this year.

 

[Page Master]

The more I hem/haw about it, the more likely I am to just accept the cost of the IW system. At the end of the day, it's probably the most proven system out there and Bill might be the only person who shoots a bow that's more OCD than I am.

Use an Easton HIT and a stainless Ethics footer.

 

[primal.wanderings]

I just switched from using the Ethics outserts on my Day Six .165 shafts back to the original Day Six components due to the lack of durability of the Ethics system. While the Ethics outserts got the exact grain weight I needed up front they were were very easy to bend on hard impacts, even the all steel ones. I would not recommend the Ethics system. Ever.

 

[5MilesBack]

You're asking about the .204 system, but then say "I'm not panicking yet (still have about 100+ days until opening day), but I spent the offseason convincing myself to go to the X Impact and honestly can't stomach the thought of ordering another dozen". So are you trying to build new Rampages and scrapping your plans of using your X-impacts?

I wasn't a fan of the Rampages and IMO those micro shafts create more problems than they solve. But to answer your question, I wouldn't expect the aluminum Ethics system to hold up well. I do have some 100gr SS Ethics halfouts in a few RIP TKO's that are holding up surprisingly well, but historically I haven't liked ANY halfouts or outserts. I'm also too OCD to use collars, but if Rampages were my only choice........I'd have to use a collar.

 

[CodeMonkey]

You're asking about the .204 system, but then say "I'm not panicking yet (still have about 100+ days until opening day), but I spent the offseason convincing myself to go to the X Impact and honestly can't stomach the thought of ordering another dozen". So are you trying to build new Rampages and scrapping your plans of using your X-impacts?

I wasn't a fan of the Rampages and IMO those micro shafts create more problems than they solve. But to answer your question, I wouldn't expect the aluminum Ethics system to hold up well. I do have some 100gr SS Ethics halfouts in a few RIP TKO's that are holding up surprisingly well, but historically I haven't liked ANY halfouts or outserts. I'm also too OCD to use collars, but if Rampages were my only choice........I'd have to use a collar.

I've shot Rampages for the last two years and have been happy with them (except for the stock halfouts). I went to X Impacts to primarily chase arrow speed and better trajectory (0.6 GPI lighter in 300 spine).

 

[Dparenti547]

The more I hem/haw about it, the more likely I am to just accept the cost of the IW system. At the end of the day, it's probably the most proven system out there and Bill might be the only person who shoots a bow that's more OCD than I am.

If you’re flirting with being underspined, then I wouldn’t say your very OCD. You shouldn’t be anywhere near underspined for hunting arrows.
Buy a dozen of the next stiffest spine, build them up front how you want, and shoot your weak spined arrows at coyotes.

 

[doc holiday13]

I'm about to find out But I will ask if you've bothered to look at all their systems. There are a few options. The adjustable HIT with end cap(lightest weight 40-65 all aluminum or 65-90 aluminum hit w/ SS end cap) , adjustable HIT with outsert(middle weight), and adjustable outsert(heaviest option)

I ordered a 3 pack of the adjustable outsert all aluminum. The only difference in lightweight and middleweight option is the collar/footer size. The difference between the middleweight and heavyweight option is the HIT. The hit on the heavyweight option appears to like a halfout and the collar sleeves over that and the arrow shaft.

Now, to address your arrows.. I jumped on the BE train this year for myself and my wife.. not sure what epoxy you use, but regardless of brand or type, I'd recommend sanding the interior and exterior of the shafts very lightly. On ALL of my wifes BE inserts, the epoxy did not bond to the arrow shaft interior wall nor did it bond on the 2 experimental shafts I built for speed testing my new bow. This could be an epoxy problem but I think there is something about the smoothness/tight weave of the carbon that BE uses. The epoxy did not bond to the arrows at all but bonded to the inserts just fine. I'm going to pull all the inserts, scuff up the inside of the arrow shafts and scuff up the inserts I pulled and "hopefully" that fixes the problem. I'm going to try the epoxy that 5milesback suggested in my other thread