Enlightened Equipment Problems

[Paulyester]

Has anyone else felt their Enlightened Equipment quilt way under performs the temperature rating? I got a 20 degree Enigma that I used for the first time scouting this past week and was very disappointed. Previously I used a GoLite Z30 quilt but unfortunately it has shrunk over time ;-) and I don't quite fit under it as well. I have been in the GoLite quilt down to the low 30's and remained comfortable. Using the exact same sleep setup this past week (stocking cap, base layers, Nemo Tensor pad) I froze to death in the high 40's and low 50's at night.

I noticed that the loft of the EE is about half what my ten year old GoLilte quilt is (1.5" vs 3") even though the temperature rating is much lower. Is it possible that they shipped me the wrong one? I ordered a Wide, maybe they stuffed it with the same amount as a regular, not taking into account the additional width? Anyone one else have similar issues?

 

[AK Troutbum]

Both of my EE quilts seem true to temperature rating for me. I would give Tim a call and see what he thinks, I’m sure he’ll do you right.


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[BRWNBR]

Sounds odd to me

 

[sneaky]

Never had that issue with mine at all. How have you been storing it? If anything, mine is hot.

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[Paulyester]

I store it laying out in a closet underneath my stairs, transport it in the cotton sack and then stuff it at the trailhead. I'm a little bit anal about my down products not being compressed for very long times.

 

[Jalliston]

I have a 20 degree revelation. I’ve only had it down to 34 degrees or so and I was hot. I left the foot box snapped but not cinched and only attached one side of my strap. So mine seems true to rating. What tensor pad are you using? Insulated? I used to have the non insulated and froze my beans off a couple times. I now use an exped synmat hL or a Downmat hL winter depending on temp.


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[Dos Perros]

My 20 is comfortable to the low/mid 30's. 20 seems like a survival rating (not a comfort rating) to me which isn't unusual for EN 13537 standard. To use my 20 down to 20 I'm in full clothes and my puffy and probably still cold. That's tarp or under the stars.

 

[Poser]

I’ve had my 20 into the low 20s sleeping in a mid layer and I was good. I’m a warm sleeper Though.

 

[sneaky]

Just goes to show how different people sleep. I think mine is true to its rating, some don't. That's why the EN ratings are just a guide.

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[veganhunter]

For some perspective, a 30 degree Western Mountaineering Megalite has 4” of loft and a 30 degree EE Enigma has 2” of loft (sourced from each respective website). The coldest rated EE quilt is zero degrees and it has 3.5” of loft. I realize this is not exactly apples to apples and there are other factors involved but down’s ability to retain heat lies a lot on the amount of loft.

In my personal experience, I would much rather use my 30 degree WM Megalite in 20 degree temps than I would run my 20 degree EE Enigma in 30 degree temps.

I am a huge fan of quilts in certain circumstances but due tend to generally find their temp ratings to be a little generous while WM ratings are conservative.

 

[AK Troutbum]

For some perspective, a 30 degree Western Mountaineering Megalite has 4” of loft and a 30 degree EE Enigma has 2” of loft (sourced from each respective website). The coldest rated EE quilt is zero degrees and it has 3.5” of loft. I realize this is not exactly apples to apples and there are other factors involved but down’s ability to retain heat lies a lot on the amount of loft.

In my personal experience, I would much rather use my 30 degree WM Megalite in 20 degree temps than I would run my 20 degree EE Enigma in 30 degree temps.

I am a huge fan of quilts in certain circumstances but due tend to generally find their temp ratings to be a little generous while WM ratings are conservative.

So does the WM’s 4” of loft include the entire thickness of the bag zipped up, and is the EE quilt measured the same way? I have no idea, just curious if they’re measured the same way.


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[veganhunter]

That’s a good question, looking at the fill weights of each bag (EE Enigma long/xwide has similar dimensions), they are both reporting roughly 13oz of down. So the loft reported by WM has to be of the entire bag that’s doubled over so you could cut the loft in half for a more accurate assessment.

Because of the baffle design on the WM bags, you can manually rearrange the down from the bottom of the bag to the top. I do this when I want to extend the range of my bag down into colder temps. But if I try to move all the down from the bottom to the top, it ends up compressing the down due to being overstuffed and diminishes the effect.

 

[veganhunter]

Did a little digging and WM appears to reports loft of the entire thickness of the bag at the shins where loft is the lowest.

 

[TradLife406]

Doesn't the R Value of your bad play a huge part of the temp rating especially on quilts?

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[sneaky]

Doesn't the R Value of your bad play a huge part of the temp rating especially on quilts?

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Yes, it does. Skimp on the pad and even the warmest quilt will appear to suck.

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[epicaaron]

I think a lot of the difference in perceived quilt vs sleeping bag warmth comes from the potential for increased convective loss in quilts due to drafts, especially for active sleepers and side sleepers. My wife has an EE 20Deg Revelation and I have an EE 20Deg Convert and based on trading back and forth we both agree that the Convert is much warmer (in sleeping bag mode) than the Revelation. They appear to have identical loft in quilt mode.

I sleep really warm and need to put on light puffy pants and a down sweater over long underwear to stay warm in the Revelation when it is in the low twenties inside of my tipi using a neo air xtherm. In the same conditions I can sleep comfortably in my boxers in the convert. I'm not a particularly big guy, but if I bought a revelation for myself I would get a wide or extra wide to cut down on drafts.

FWIW I really like both quilts and have been happy with EE's quality. Their treated down is a huge improvement over traditional down when using a bivy sack.

 

[Paulyester]

This is what concerned me the most, my 20 degree has only 1.5" of loft at the widest point.

 

[Paulyester]

By the way, talked to EE customer service and was told too bad. A little bummed.

 

[sneaky]

This is what concerned me the most, my 20 degree has only 1.5" of loft at the widest point.

I'll have to measure mine sometime, but it's more than that I'm pretty sure. Heck, mine was a Massdrop special from a couple years ago too.

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[ChrisS]

This is what concerned me the most, my 20 degree has only 1.5" of loft at the widest point.

Weigh it and compare that to what it should weigh. EE publishes their approximate weights. If you're off by a couple of ounces, then you're probably missing down.