Elk Survey of Cameron Peak Fire Area

[cnelk]

The CPW released a video of a recent fly over elk survey.

Interesting https://cpw.state.co.us/aboutus/Pages/News-Release-Details.aspx?NewsID=7691

 

[bz_711]

Very Cool!

(but also makes me wonder if they're trying to keep driving those OTC tag sales with vids such as this? - I thought we were supposed to not pressure wintering elk)

 

[brimow]

Very Cool!

(but also makes me wonder if they're trying to keep driving those OTC tag sales with vids such as this? - I thought we were supposed to not pressure wintering elk)

FYI - The herd that they were surveying is in limited units not OTC. They are limited due to CWD not trophy management though. Does appear pretty aggressive at times in the video.

 

[fishslap]

Very Cool!

(but also makes me wonder if they're trying to keep driving those OTC tag sales with vids such as this? - I thought we were supposed to not pressure wintering elk)

Man, nothing is immune to conspiracy theories these days. They always do the surveys in winter, and these are not OTC units.

“CPW conducts big game survey work in the winter when herds concentrate and visibility is ideal. Crews are able to identify herds by sex and age, and use date to generate male-to-female radios, estimate populations and gather information to help rate overall elkhealth and determine hunting quotas.”

 

[Southforkguy]

I thought this was an awesome video. it would be smart to video and count later imo. But great job CPW

 

[Smokeslider]

I thought this was an awesome video. it would be smart to video and count later imo. But great job CPW

In my experience, there's a lot going in inside that cabin during surveys. They're utilizing video but also taking notes for various factors during the survey, My experience has mostly been with "Wild" horse and burro surveys but similar in nature to this. Not a fun flight profile for the queasy stomach.

 

[LongWayAround]

Cool video. Seems like a very inefficient way to count them though.

I can't pick up a shed antler while turkey hunting but they can cut them like cattle with a helicopter. Makes sense to me...

 

[spike camp]

Cool video. Seems like a very inefficient way to count them though.

I can't pick up a shed antler while turkey hunting but they can cut them like cattle with a helicopter. Makes sense to me...

A helicopter cutting an elk herd for 5-10 minutes for valuable information, during the only time the elk are herded up, taking special care as far as fences and other dangers vs....hoards of unscrupulous/unethical shed hunters pounding the hills with zero regards to pressure and safety all just to make a few dollars.

Sometimes stepping outside of the box, makes the facts clearer.

 

[LongWayAround]

A helicopter cutting an elk herd for 5-10 minutes for valuable information, during the only time the elk are herded up, taking special care as far as fences and other dangers vs....hoards of unscrupulous/unethical shed hunters pounding the hills with zero regards to pressure and safety all just to make a few dollars.

Sometimes stepping outside of the box, makes the facts clearer.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[orionthehunter1]

A helicopter cutting an elk herd for 5-10 minutes for valuable information, during the only time the elk are herded up, taking special care as far as fences and other dangers vs....hoards of unscrupulous/unethical shed hunters pounding the hills with zero regards to pressure and safety all just to make a few dollars.

Sometimes stepping outside of the box, makes the facts clearer.

So stressing and herding pregnant cows while stating in your video that we have low calf recruitment is beneficial to help that recruitment? Do you honestly think someone walking around looking for sheds is more detrimental than chasing them around with a helicopter?

 

[Red Letters]

counting in a recorder, a cow, a cow, a cow, a spike as they chase the herd for miles....instead of taking a still photo, pulling off and counting at your computer later makes no sense to me

 

[Okhotnik]

Looks like your new wolves will be well fed

 

[spike camp]

So stressing and herding pregnant cows while stating in your video that we have low calf recruitment is beneficial to help that recruitment? Do you honestly think someone walking around looking for sheds is more detrimental than chasing them around with a helicopter?

If you had half an idea of what what goes on with unethical shed hunting, the answer to your second question is a resounding, yes.

Flight surveys are a vital part of collecting necessary data.
It’s brief and accurate.
Unethical shed hunting practices, are not.

 

[Vandy321]

We can take photos of people in lawn chairs, from space.

Why not take an aerial from a few k ft above, go back to the office and count, save the already fire stressed herd some added winter stress...because that takes all the fun out of it?

 

[orionthehunter1]

If you had half an idea of what what goes on with unethical shed hunting, the answer to your second question is a resounding, yes.

Flight surveys are a vital part of collecting necessary data.
It’s brief and accurate.
Unethical shed hunting practices, are not.

If that data was remotely accurate i would cut some slack, but to say this doesn't stress elk is nonsense.

 

[spike camp]

If that data was remotely accurate i would cut some slack, but to say this doesn't stress elk is nonsense.

I would agree and why I didn’t say there was no stressing of the animals involved.

As far as inaccurate data, is that your opinion?

 

[orionthehunter1]

Their data isn't accurate not sure you really want to get into this but I feel you must work or be tied to CPW. Their winter counts are a joke they fly the same areas regardless of snowpack take a rough number and then enter it into an equation and voila they have a herd count. Their harvest stats are educated guesses at best. In draw units they might be a tad more accurate, but in OTC units they have no clue, heck they have no idea how many guys hunt a specific OTC unit so without mandatory harvest reporting how do they have a snowballs chance in hell of knowing how many elk are actually harvested. Before you mention their surveys those are also a joke. I grew up here and yeah thirty years I would occasionally get called. I haven't been called in over 10 years for any species. My kids have been contacted once. They have publicly admitted to downplaying and not accurately getting bear numbers i can post the article if you like, as well as, admitting they were off on their mountain lion numbers in the meeting down here last winter. They said they hadn't looked at mountain lion numbers are adjusting harvest quotas in over ten years. How is that accurate management?

 

[orionthehunter1]

The next year, all the bears returned.

For decades, Apker said, wildlife managers have relied on old studies that estimated Colorado was home to between 10,000 and 12,000 bears.

“That’s what we hung our hat on for almost 15 years because we didn’t have anything else,” Apker said.

Since then, Parks and Wildlife have tried to estimate bear populations by mapping vegetation and extrapolating from the number of bears killed during hunting season. The hair snag method has improved the agency’s estimates of bear densities in different types of habitat.

“The methodology we’ve got now, it’s better,” he said. “Is it perfect science? No, but we have to use the best we have.”

Here is a quote from CPW on that article i mentioned about the bear numbers. How is hanging your hat on a random number for 15 years good data?

 

[mtwarden]

I don't think biologists are looking for a "number"; at least they don't in Montana. They fly multiple "trend areas" in a unit, these trend areas remain the same year after year (after year). This gives them a pretty good idea if populations are down, up or about the same, with enough accuracy to base next season's quotas.

You can't accurately count ungulates (or any game animal for that matter), but with diligence you should be able to get a good idea on how the population is doing as a whole.

 

[orionthehunter1]

They can do better then using the same number for 15 years. The problem with flying "trend areas" is they never adjust for how our winter is doing. They fly the same patch of winter ground regardless of snowpack. Some years if our winters are milder the majority of elk stay higher yet CPW doesn't adjust for this and still flies the same old area. Same with huge winters when the elk work lower towards the state line CPW still flys the same area. They are getting a few elk, but I don't believe this gives an accurate overall scope of the herd.