Elk rifle in bear country

[Teaman1]

I've done quite a bit of reading on the subject but was wondering if any of you change your elk hunting rifle when around grizzlies. Seems that most people don't think a grizz is going to be stopped without a CNS hit, so wouldn't a 30-06 with tough bullets be just as good as a 338 if you don't brain or spine them. 338 might kill quicker but it doesn't take them long to work a guy over. Been looking into some grizzly areas in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming so I'm just looking for some opinions since I have little experience on the big fuzzies.

 

[Teaman1]

I should add that from what I've read, bear spray is statistically the best defense. Camp smart and be careful seem to be best advice for avoiding a run in. Just wondering on weapon choices

 

[philos]

Elk are tough animals so base your choice of rifle on that first unless you simply want to buy more than one gun. I use a 338 WM because it will likely bring down an elk faster than a smaller, caliber will-----all else being equal.
I won't lie, I do like that it has the punch to hammer a bear if I have to use it but you do have to hit it right to stop them immediately. No commercial available caliber will anchor a bear if you don't hit it well but the idea to me seems to be to slow it down so you can hit it with a mortal shot if need be.

I believe in using the largest caliber you can shoot confidently and accurately on elk. If that is a 30-06 then use that if it as a 458 then use that. When I was out fishing near Dubois this Summer I had a 12 gauge shotgun with slugs and buckshot which is-in my opinion-a great short distance stopper but certainly not something I would elk hunt with.

Many folks will buy a pistol for bear medicine-that might make some folks sleep better and something you might want to consider if you have concerns.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

While I am a bow hunter 90% of the time, I do not believe you can carry too much gun. I really the like versatility of my Mauser action 45-70 Govt. All kinds of ammo choices and it is a great little brush gun. In this crappy video (shot with a cell phone) I hit this 2009lb bison in the lungs on the first shot, the follow up shot literally blew its neck bone out and sent the bull cartwheeling like a rag doll. It was dead before it hit the ground. When in doubt, add KE. The 350gr Buffalo Bore ammo I used was shooting almost flatline at 2150fps. 45-70 Magnum - Lever Gun Rifle & Gun Ammunition

If there's even a slight chance of mama grizzly getting spooked by your unintentional stalk on her I say tilt the odds in your favor. There's no such thing as too dead. Given a choice, I choose not to be under-gunned regardless how "unlikely" the situation. Option B, have a guy along with a shotgun for defense.

[video=youtube;EzLGcHmOcNY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzLGcHmOcNY[/video]

 

[Bigtmiller]

I carry a 338 WM for about everything. Just a great round that brings down game quickly with a good shot. Most 30cal rifles will be very effective on Elk and also help in a bear encounter situation. No matter what shot placement still rules the day.

 

[elkguide]

Carry what you are comfortable with and shoot well and be careful and you'll be fine.

As a guide for many years in area 60 in Wyoming, (that's the Thoroughfare on the SE corner of Yellowstone Park area) we always seemed to see/face grizz once or twice a week. I carried a .44 Mag and bear spray, while my hunters carried the full gamut of calibers. I was always cautious no matter how large the caliber of the rifle was being carried and would do the same thing if going back there to guide again.

If I were hunting in an area with grizz, I would carry a .44 mag, bear spray, my "familiar" .300 win mag, be aware of my surroundings always and have an enjoyable hunt.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Carry what you are comfortable with and shoot well and be careful and you'll be fine.

As a guide for many years in area 60 in Wyoming, (that's the Thoroughfare on the SE corner of Yellowstone Park area) we always seemed to see/face grizz once or twice a week. I carried a .44 Mag and bear spray, while my hunters carried the full gamut of calibers. I was always cautious no matter how large the caliber of the rifle was being carried and would do the same thing if going back there to guide again.

If I were hunting in an area with grizz, I would carry a .44 mag, bear spray, my "familiar" .300 win mag, be aware of my surroundings always and have an enjoyable hunt.

What model .44 ya carry? Just curious.

 

[Teaman1]

I hunt with a 300 wsm(use it for al big gamel hunting) I carry bear spray and a 44 mag with 300 grain hard casts when packing. I have a hard time believing that I'd lay down my rifle to try bear spray, even though my odds with spray might be better. I think I'm just looking for an excuse to get another rifle.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Interesting thread. When I was doing a lot of elk hunting in the western US, I only got to hunt Montana once and Wyoming once, all the other elk I hunted were in NM, AZ and CO. I always carried a 44mag with me (a ruger redhawk with a 4” barrel) and kept it loaded with hard casts. (still carry it on occasion although I’ve mostly switched to a 10mm Glock for woods use).

I’m hoping to someday get the opportunity to hunt elk here in AK and I’m also itching for a new rifle, I have a few 375HHs but was sort of thinking of getting a kimber Montana in 338wm, although I could just take my talkeetna and be good with it.

I just sort of got out of magnums over the years, even for moose I just use a 30-06 or a 308.

 

[LaGriz]

My take,
I own a Kimber Montana in .325 WSM that would be a good option. I would however, not feel under-gunned with my 338-06. The Winchester M70 has a conventional (3+1) magazine , while the Montana only as a 2+1 capacity. Both rifles are CRF, while the extra round in the M70 might be comforting with an angry bear posing a threat.

LaGriz

 

[Beendare]

I can't see laying down a centerfire rifle with a strong bonded bullet for bear spray or a pistol.

You are carrying a potent bear defense weapon in a 30.06...assuming you can shoot it well.

 

[jmden]

I can't see laying down a centerfire rifle with a strong bonded bullet for bear spray or a pistol.

You are carrying a potent bear defense weapon in a 30.06...assuming you can shoot it well.

Agreed.

I am starting to have the feeling that the pendulum has maybe swung too far, so to speak, on bear spray. Have seen several experienced folks from AK where bear spray would NOT be their first choice.

Ran across this recently: GUN WATCH: Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by Caliber Might have been in another thread here. Take it for what it's worth. Rifle should be more accurate and deadly, theoretically. Got to be handy though. Have walked through the living room of griz in Montana more than once and it is spooky. There are situations where bearspray doesn't work. Wind is a huge factor in bear spray.

 

[ramont]

I had a discussion the other day with a guy that said that he would always use spray first and then his 10mm Glock if that didn't work, I think that his thinking was flawed.

The average bear attack (note that I'm talking about an actual attack, not a feint or a curious bear that is walking around your area) will happen within 30 yards and you will only have about 3 seconds before the bear is on top of you. I don't see how anybody could expect to remove a can of bear spray, disengage the safety on the spray, deploy it, check for it's effect, pull a pistol, and shoot several several times, all in under 3 seconds.

If you are being charged you will only have one chance to stop the attack and I don't have any expectation of being able to do much more than pull one device and deploy it, if I use a spray and it doesn't work then I'm going to bleed and I might even die. If I use a gun then I might bleed and may even spend some time in the hospital but I'm pretty confident that I'll live through the encounter.

I live in southwestern Montana and we have grizzlys and mountain lions around my house, I carry a .308 or 30-06 rifle for hunting with no pistol. When I'm hiking I carry at least my high capacity .45 ACP but more often than not I will carry either my .44 mag or .454.

 

[frankrb3]

I hunt with a 300 wsm(use it for al big gamel hunting) I carry bear spray and a 44 mag with 300 grain hard casts when packing. I have a hard time believing that I'd lay down my rifle to try bear spray, even though my odds with spray might be better. I think I'm just looking for an excuse to get another rifle.

I carry the exact same trio. The pistol and bear spray are justified by the fact it is very hard to aim a scoped rifle in the dark (hiking in or out) and I always set my rifle down while I quarter/field dress my kill. I wear my bear spry on my bino harness, pistol on my belt, and rifle slung over my shoulder.

 

[wytx]

Carry your bear spray on a hip holster, your hand will be down there while walking and practice drawing it out until it's instinct. Your rifle will be slung on your shoulder and pistol in a holster, you may carry it for a while but I bet on your shoulder is more likely. Are you going to carry the pistol with one in the pipe? If not get a revolver.
Almost any 30 cal is fine for elk and bears.
My 300wsm dropped my bison in one shot and she went only about 20 yds after the shot. A good bonded bullet would be my choice.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

a 30/06 with 62 odd grains of reloader 22, is pumping a 180 grain bullet at about 2900 out of a 22 inch barrel. 24 to 26, well into the 3000 fps range. However, we all know that this gun won't kill one because it wasn't developed in the last 10 years. Nor does a box of bullets cost $75. Its obsolete.
Gotta have the latest and greatest magnum that will shoot 12 fps faster.

 

[elkguide]

What model .44 ya carry? Just curious.

Ruger Red Hawk 6".

 

[SonnyDay]

The rifle is a pretty good first choice if you are out and about... and spray can be as well depending on the details. But both are really unwieldy in the dark in a tent. That's where the pistol comes in.

 

[Moosehunter]

223 in North Idaho for me.
Loads of grizzlies here. It works