Elk moving away from bugles

[GregB]

The last 2 years me and my hunting partner have had the repeated issue of elk responding to bugles but moving away from us. They will respond to our location bugles or cow calls, but as soon as we move in and start bugling they move away, They will still respond and bugle back but keep moving off. We keep trying to close the distance and dog them to get them to turn and come in, had some success with that last year. We are anywhere from 60-200 yards from the bull, wind is good and they didn't see us. My hunting partner has hunted there 4 or 5 years previous and said he has never seen the elk act like this. Usually they will come in to fight or come in silent to check out who is there. I don't know if perhaps there is more pressure and the elk are getting educated. What we can't figure out is why they act like this, maybe it's us, or a good tactic to use in these situations.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Bugle better?

 

[KHNC]

If you get one to bugle, then why bugle again after you close the distance? Move in on them and get close. Rake some trees or keep sneaking in. NO need to bugle , bugle , bugle. This educates and runs off plenty of elk. Especially true on CO and ID high pressure areas.

 

[GregB]

Bugle better?

Ha well played. I actually had the same thought, but if my hunting partner didn't have issues previously then I don't know if that is the issue. I think we both bugle decent and have both called in elk in the past.

 

[AaronMColeman]

I have two theories that kinda blend into each other. I have seen a lot of wolf track this year, and with more big game hunters in the mountains and more bugles being blown in general, I think the elk are learning. I think it's predation that is making them quiet...predation from wolves and hunters. I could be dead wrong, but I think the elk are quieting down in general and this will only continue as us dummies run through the woods blasting out bugles like we are Miles Davis on the trumpet.

I've had some similar experiences this season...of course this has been a very quiet and strange season in general so I wouldn't draw too many overarching conclusions from 2020.

 

[Hooverfb]

From what I've read, unless they're just a monster bull that intends to thrash you, if you keep bugeling from afar they'll just avoid you. Seems you need to get closer once you've located, then bugle once you're at a range they'd need to come challenge you rather than avoid you.

Just from what I've read.

 

[Randle]

In my experience the sounds I have heard bulls make , it's pretty hard to screw up a bugle . They sound horrible some days. and very rarely make the typical bugle we always hear hunters make.
They are probably moving away anyways , ie heading to bedding or a challenge is not for them that day , they want to keep cows not lose them in a fight.

 

[MallardSX2]

A big yes to the three above posts.

 

[Wrench]

age class of the typical bulls in the area can play into this.

Best advice I have, if you can get to 60.....rake a tree and expect either on a string quick....or cover downwind for the ninja.....and expect satellites to keep sniffing you out, you are displaying for a cow in their eyes.

 

[jmez]

Are you continuing with the location bugles after you move in? If so they are doing exactly as you would expect. Not many elk are going to come in to a locate bugle.

 

[Bubblehide]

My impression is that you are pushing the elk away. What I mean is that it sounds like there is a herd bull, and the herd bull wants to keep his girls. The easiest way to do that is to simply move his girls away from the other bull (you). At some point I think you are over calling. For your situation, I would locate and move in using cow calls. When I am within 50 yards (I would prefer 40) I would throw out a challenge call. The point here is that you want to be so close that the herd bull does not see having the option of moving his girls away, and must respond to the challenge in a physical manner = moving to you (the challenging bull).

 

[trophyhill]

if they are moving away, you have to make up your mind, do i? or don't I continue and dog the herd. if you continue and can keep up, at some point the bull will have to stand his ground and deal with you. more than likely he has cows and moving to bedding area. keeping him vocal is key in this situation. find out what that sound is that will keep him vocal, and keep going until he has to deal with you

 

[roosiebull]

In my experience the sounds I have heard bulls make , it's pretty hard to screw up a bugle . They sound horrible some days. and very rarely make the typical bugle we always hear hunters make.
They are probably moving away anyways , ie heading to bedding or a challenge is not for them that day , they want to keep cows not lose them in a fight.

pretty much all spot on in my experience..... tons of factors that can make bulls seem like they are moving away from bugles (sometimes they are) lots of tactics to fight that too, like dog them until they bed... get to where they are going and call them from there.... it takes a pretty fired up bull to bugle back in to where he just left. calling is like every other tactic, to have consistent success, you need to be creative and improvise.... adapt to the actual scenario you are in rather than keep trying some generic technique that isn't working.

unless i'm trying to keep a bull located from a distance(or locate), i'm not going to call until i'm certain that bull will come all the way in, calling isn't always the best approach, and bugling/cow calls aren't the only calls that call bulls in.

we humans have the ability to problem solve, use that ability bugling back and forth with a bull all morning is what lots of hunters do, convince that bull you're an elk, don't be a predictable hunter.... each scenario is different, treating them all the same will not give you many actual shot opportunities on bulls.... you might hear some bugles, don't be content with that

 

[4ester]

Think about what your telling him.

When you bugle far away he just answers you to acknowledge another bull.

But when you cut the distance and bugle again, the bull thinks you are coming for his cows. So he rounds them up and leaves.

You have to get right in his grill to bugle the second time. You have to put the bull in a position that he has to defend his cows.

If he catches your wind, that also will make them shut up and leave.


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[FlyGuy]

What week were you hunting? Were they bugling on their own, or only/primary in response to you? What time of day was this happening? Did you ever get eyes on them? Did they have cows or no? Did you try cow calling instead of bugles? Better or same result?

It Could be a lot of different things, but if you got a response to a locator, then moved closer and bugled, then moved closer and bugled, then moved closer and bugled and he had moved; then I’d say it’s b/c you told him you were coming.

Sometimes that’s just they way it is If they aren’t fired up yet. They have just enough fire in their belly to respond, but they really don’t want a confrontation (with or w/o cows). The rutting activity seemed to be pushed back significantly due to weather/snow, so what would normally work during your typical 3rd week of September was too aggressive and they needed to talked to like it’s opening week instead.

Lastly, if you got aggressive too fast, then that might have done it. They just weren’t frustrated yet when you got close and challenged.

Just ideas... but no idea if that helps since I’m not sure of your tactics used.





You can’t cheat the mountain

 

[theleo91386]

I'd suggest you get Elknut's play book. You need to know what you're saying when you're bugling at them and appropriate times to do it. Bugling as you move in after locating a heard usually results in the bull gathering the cows and moving off.

 

[Swede]

I have watched herds leave from an excellent location bugle when the hunter had no idea any elk were around. The elk did not answer. They just left the area. Elk get educated, and when they get accustomed to seeing or smelling a nimrod whenever they investigate a bugle; they soon just leave when they hear one.
Where I have hunted the elk are soon after the opening of archery season all on a nice safe ranch where they will bugle back at you all day long, but will not come close to the fence that separates private and public land.

 

[5MilesBack]

Normally when they run.......it's a smaller bull with cows and he doesn't want to lose them. So any bugle is a threat to him. Move on.

 

[nphunter]

I bugle to locate a bull, once I think I know where he is I move closer and bugle again. I move again when he answers, when I feel like I'm either close or am not sure where he is I bugle again, when he answers I move. This is normal elk behavior and we push them until they stop and turn and then we shoot them. A lot of times bulls will answer bugles the entire time they are moving and only stop once they get to where they are going. Midday if you hear weak quite bugles those are typically bulls bugling from their bed.

In my experience, most bulls move if your bugling and getting to close, the only time they typically don't is when you get too close and they feel like they need to fight. 9/10 times they will leave as you bugle your way in, if they can slip away as you approach they are 100% for sure going to keep their cows, if they stay to fight they may lose. Since they don't know your bugle they don't know if you are a dink they can run off or a slob coming to steal their cows. It's always best to only bugle when needed or sometimes just for fun to keep a conversation up. The bull I killed this season had a dozen cows and constantly pushed away from bugles, when we would get close he would stand his ground and shred a tree or two, when we didn't show up after a few minutes he would move on or most likely his cows would get annoyed by all of the bugling and move on and he would follow. After a few rounds of raking and screaming he ended up in a more open area raking and me and my two boys were able to pop out of the vine maple at 45 yards and kill him. His cows stayed there and feed next to his dead body for the next 30 minutes.

This has always been my experience with killing bulls, hardly ever will they come screaming in on a string. The only exception for me has been medium-sized satellites, it seems like they always come on a string to about 70 yards and then walk around and try to get a look at you or circle down wind. My last 3 bulls have all had several cows with them and they all pushed away from our bugles until they had to stand their ground. We literally almost run toward a bull right after a bugle to close the ground, if they close the ground first they will stop out of range in most cases and look where the sound was coming from. If you get there first sometimes they will come in for a shot, my last couple bulls tried to intimidate me by vigorously rubbing trees, the one before that finally just go mad enough that he turned and came screaming in after about 2 miles of chasing him, he was so pissed he let me miss him at 10 yards looked at me circled around me and still charged in at the bugle so I shot him at 20 after he passed me.

We pushed this bull for several hours before getting a shot. My 11 & 14 year old boys were calling. I told my son to answer every bugle the bull made as fast and loud as he could. If the bull didn’t answer for a bit I’d use the tube and give him a lip bawl.

 

[Deadfall]

Stop talking to the bulls. Pretend they don't exist. Just be a bull with a few cows doing elk stuff.

Theres a big difference between hunting a 290 inch bull and a mature bull(anything over 315).

In a herd most often cos are more vocal then bulls. Type of elk you trying to be and emotions you using...ie pitches, tones, length of sound matter. One or two cow calls after a bugle just won't cut it on mature bulls. Of course for a few days at a certain time of year all bulls are retarded. Most often how you say what you trying to say, really matters.

If you getting 200 or closer hes answering and he walks away, don't pursue. He don't like something. Take a break give it some time. Move away from him a bit and do something different.

Bulls with cows don't chase other bulls that are leaving.