Elk Caliber with Particular Rifle Considerations

[HGSNDGS]

Hello. I am interested in purchasing a rifle for elk hunting. I have experience with shotguns, 5.56, and archery. I have been in the rabbit hole, both on rokslide and elsewhere. I prefer archery hunting but a group of us are planning a trip for rifle season. I’m between 3 or so choices and I just can’t make a decision.

Tikka T3x Lite in 308
Seekins Ph3 in 7 PRC
Bergara in 300WM.

My concerns are:
308- Pros- Lightweight/Shootability/ Concerns-“knockdown” power
7 PRC- Pros- Larger Seekins- Rifle cost, ammo quality/availability (I’m not a reloader)
300 WM-Bergara-Pros- 30 Cal, velocity, Cons- Weight, recoil

I have a max 300 yard range I shoot at. I really don’t think I’d take a shot further than that no matter the rifle. It wouldn’t be ethical without a lot of practice at those distances. I would imagine most elk are taken within that distance? Has anybody ever hunted with a 308 and wished for more? I don’t want to wound an animal. Is there a caliber I should consider outside of these? Should a 30.06 or 7 REM Mag be a consideration?

Go with the .300 WM. I love the heavy bullets available for 30 calibers. One of my favorites is the 180 grain Barnes TTSX. I prefer the extra horse power in the .300 Weatherby or .300 Remington Ultra Mag, but you’ll do just fine with the Winchester and ammo is readily available in every little Mom and Pop store in elk country.

 

[glock233]

I find all this talk about small caliber rifles for elk very interesting. In part because I can’t help but wonder how many 6.5 and smaller fans have ever shot a truly big bull of 7+ years old. There’s a big difference between a 900+ lb. Bull and a rag horn or cow. I also wonder how many small caliber proponents have ever lost a bull with their small gun. I have a feeling that some have more experience in typing on forums than actually killing elk.

If I was advising a new elk hunter on a first rifle, it’d be a 270 Winchester, 308, 30-06. They’re all better for elk than smaller calibers. My own choice for elk is usually my .338 Win Mag, which I settled on after using a number of smaller guns on elk. But I wouldn’t advise a .338 for a new elk hunter. I think a 30-06 is as close to ideal as any other choice.

We lose and wound more elk to bad shots than small calibers. People are more accurate with smaller calibers period. Over-gunning for no reason doesn’t do anything.

Large elk aren’t hard to kill. Neither are moose. These meat slabs that protect the vitals are 4-6” inches thick and soft.

Your recommendations of 270 and 308 are sensible at appropriate ranges.

 

[probablymissed]

Short answer: 308 because ammo is everywhere and with many different bullet types to choose from. Like archery consistency is key, and shot placement is king. Find a suitable bullet the gun likes and shoot that one. I personally like federal terminal ascent.

Fondle some guns pick one that feels good and shoulders well then pick a suitable caliber.

Aftermarket triggers may also be beneficial, but thats a whole different rabbit hole.

Long answer: I have been hunting for 25 years but elk hunting for only 3. I started elk hunting with a 308 but switched to a supressed ph3 in a 300wm last year. Is it awesome? absolutely! Did I need to spend 5k on a gun to kill elk, nah. The ph3 makes my Bergara Sierra Wilderness feel like a boat paddle. The Bergara shoots well but it doesnt feel as nice in the hand. I imagine the comparison would be similar to handling a bear bow to a hoyt or a mathews. Seekins customer service is top tier in my opinion. I switched because I wanted a flatter trajectory with a little more hp since the short shots where I hunt are at 250 roughly. I stayed with the 300wm for general ammo availability and I prefer 30cal for various reasons. I shot a bull at 265 last season with a high shoulder shot and it went down in about 10yds. A new rifle hunter (archery guy) in our hunt camp harvested a cow with a 30-06 last season too.

You could also buy an accurate lower end model of a particular action and put it in a aftermarket stock you like. Im considering putting the Bergara in a manners stock vs buying a short action ph3. Cva might be another brand to look at, they are also known to be budget tack drivers.

 

[Mtbhikernv]

My 7PRC ph3 rocked my cow elk last winter.

 

[solarshooter]

I have been in the rabbit hole

Congrats on getting "in the rabbit hole"!

Concerns-“knockdown” power

Really, you mention knockdown power but not wallop factor?? You need to maximize the following equation:

(bullet diameter)^3 * (2*wallop factor + 0.5*knockdown power) / (recoil tolerance aka "what are you a wussy??" factor) = Ultimate Killability Rating (UKR)

Anything under a 500 UKR won't do. This means 300 WM, 338 LM, 375 CheyTac, 50 BMG, etc. The fact you'd even consider a cartridge measured in millimeters is CRAZY. Millimeters are SMALL, inches are BIG, DUHHH!!

 

[Mtbhikernv]

Congrats on getting "in the rabbit hole"!


Really, you mention knockdown power but not wallop factor?? You need to maximize the following equation:

(bullet diameter)^3 * (2*wallop factor + 0.5*knockdown power) / (recoil tolerance aka "what are you a wussy??" factor) = Ultimate Killability Rating (UKR)

Anything under a 500 UKR won't do. This means 300 WM, 338 LM, 375 CheyTac, 50 BMG, etc. The fact you'd even consider a cartridge measured in millimeters is CRAZY. Millimeters are SMALL, inches are BIG, DUHHH!!

My go to for doe hunting, it’s all about shot placement.

MAG-FED 20MM RIFLE - Anzio Ironworks

Ø 49” match grade fluted barrel Ø Heavy duty clam-shell brake Ø Detachable box magazine Ø Available in 14.5mm and/or 20mm calibers Ø Titanium firing pin Ø 2 mile max range Ø Optional weights and configurations Ø Huge amounts of fun Ø Low recoil

www.anzioironworks.com

 

[solarshooter]

My go to for doe hunting, it’s all about shot placement.

MAG-FED 20MM RIFLE - Anzio Ironworks

Ø 49” match grade fluted barrel Ø Heavy duty clam-shell brake Ø Detachable box magazine Ø Available in 14.5mm and/or 20mm calibers Ø Titanium firing pin Ø 2 mile max range Ø Optional weights and configurations Ø Huge amounts of fun Ø Low recoil

www.anzioironworks.com

FINALLY someone understands ETHICAL hunting. With a cartridge like this, you can clean miss by up to 5" and the shockwave alone will cause hydrostatic shock and instant death.

 

[BuckSmasher]

The pendulum swing, complete over reaction to, and worse for ethics than magnumitis is believing a .22 is an elk rifle.

 

[solarshooter]

The pendulum swing, complete over reaction to, and worse for ethics than magnumitis is believing a .22 is an elk rifle.

ANY .22 cal?

 

[BuckSmasher]

ANY .22 cal?

ANY .22 cal.

 

[solarshooter]

ANY .22 cal.

And you've seen the 22 cal success thread?

Why is 22cal unacceptable but 24cal is ok?

 

[Mtbhikernv]

FINALLY someone understands ETHICAL hunting. With a cartridge like this, you can clean miss by up to 5" and the shockwave alone will cause hydrostatic shock and instant death.

I’m looking to take out generations each trigger press

 

[BuckSmasher]

And you've seen the 22 cal success thread?

Why is 22cal unacceptable but 24cal is ok?

I have. You won't get me to commit to exactly what is/isn't adequate for elk, except a .22 and any weight bullet it can shoot, at any velocity, is an unethical elk rifle.

The whole drive to prove how small and weak a rifle can shoot an elk is driven by the same ethos and values as the folks that say only .338 250 grain bullets and above. Insecurity and desire to be different.

 

[solarshooter]

I have. You won't get me to commit to exactly what is/isn't adequate for elk, except a .22 and any weight bullet it can shoot, at any velocity, is an unethical elk rifle.

If you've seen the thread, how can you say so definitively that 22 is unethical? By what you've said, a 90gr 6mm is better than a 90gr 5.56mm? You think that 0.44mm is making a huge difference there?

The whole drive to prove how small and weak a rifle can shoot an elk is driven by the same ethos and values as the folks that say only .338 250 grain bullets and above. Insecurity and desire to be different.

It's a provable fact that you will get more hits on target with less recoil.

It's a provable fact that heavy for caliber 22cal bullets can be driven to high speeds with less recoil than heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers.

It's a provable fact that heavy for caliber bullets of proper construction impacting targets at adequate velocities are extremely lethal.

Therefore, it's a provable fact that a 22cal cartridge shooting a heavy for caliber bullet will deliver the most lethal hits on target.

What about this has to do with insecurity or wanting to be different?

 

[43.6N]

I have. You won't get me to commit to exactly what is/isn't adequate for elk, except a .22 and any weight bullet it can shoot, at any velocity, is an unethical elk rifle.

The whole drive to prove how small and weak a rifle can shoot an elk is driven by the same ethos and values as the folks that say only .338 250 grain bullets and above. Insecurity and desire to be different.

I disagree on the blanket 22 cal statement, and with your statement on how ethical it may or may not be.

But I also won’t flame you for having an opinion I disagree with. Carry on.

 

[BuckSmasher]

If you've seen the thread, how can you say so definitively that 22 is unethical? By what you've said, a 90gr 6mm is better than a 90gr 5.56mm? You think that 0.44mm is making a huge difference there?


It's a provable fact that you will get more hits on target with less recoil.

It's a provable fact that heavy for caliber 22cal bullets can be driven to high speeds with less recoil than heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers.

It's a provable fact that heavy for caliber bullets of proper construction impacting targets at adequate velocities are extremely lethal.

Therefore, it's a provable fact that a 22cal cartridge shooting a heavy for caliber bullet will deliver the most lethal hits on target.

What about this has to do with insecurity or wanting to be different?

I never said anything about a 6mm. Anything you say I said about it is your words not mine.

The only proveable fact statement you make, that I think can be defended as such, is that, "heavy for caliber 22cal bullets can be driven to high speeds with less recoil than heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers."

Maybe "more hits on target" also if you are talking about repeat shots. Why do you need repeat shots?

Lets just agree to disagree. I have shot a ton of 50-250 lb critters with a 223/556 and didn't think it performed all that well.

 

[Mtbhikernv]

I never said anything about a 6mm. Anything you say I said about it is your words not mine.

The only proveable fact statement you make, that I think can be defended as such, is that, "heavy for caliber 22cal bullets can be driven to high speeds with less recoil than heavy for caliber bullets in larger calibers."

Maybe "more hits on target" also if you are talking about repeat shots. Why do you need repeat shots?

Let’s just agree to disagree. I have shot a ton of 50-250 lb critters with a 223/556 and didn't think it performed all that well.

….that’s a very human range of weight …just saying

 

[BuckSmasher]

….that’s a very human range of weight …just saying

All pigs and one 8 point whitetail.

 

[probablymissed]

I think the saying "Just because you can doesnt mean you should" may apply to some of this discussion.

 

[Aussie Dan]

Maybe "more hits on target" also if you are talking about repeat shots. Why do you need repeat shots?

Do you only carry 1 round with you when hunting?