Elk advice, 2 lost in a row where am i going wrong?

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

After watching an elk that was lifeless for long enough for a buddy to smoke a cigarette, load up the packs, hike 300 yards on the way to it through a small drainage, only to have the elk awaken from the dead when I slipped on some rocks about 50 yards away, get up, turn around and crest a hill… I will (and have) always shoot multiple times, even if they are “down”. That was an eye opening experience. It was laying head down, front leg stretched out straight down hill, with its tongue hanging out for easily 30 minutes. It looked dead as any other dead animal I’ve seen. But it wasn’t.

I've had the funny opposite. We kept shooting a barbary one time thinking it was still alive, but its head was propped against a rock making it look alive and alert.

 

[Choupique]

kept shooting a barbary one time thinking it was still alive, but its head was propped against a rock making it look alive and alert.

My old man shot a 1" 4 shot group in a whitetail last season - head propped on a log.

He only quit shooting because he ran out of bullets. That shoulder required a lot of trimming.

 

[waspocrew]

Help me understand what you wrote here. Are you referring to the .308 WIN cartridge or the .308 caliber as a whole? Explain how it’s too slow?

I'm suspecting he's saying .308 Win and using "caliber" instead of "cartridge".

 

[intunegp]

My old man shot a 1" 4 shot group in a whitetail last season - head propped on a log.

He only quit shooting because he ran out of bullets. That shoulder required a lot of trimming.

One time when I was young and had only been hunting for a couple years, I shot a doe out of a group of three and when they scattered one of them ran almost straight towards me. I was sitting on the ground at the base of a fairly steep ridge. Once the movement stopped I looked over my shoulder and could see a doe's head poking out from behind a tree, looking around on alert, but seemingly not aware of my presence. I thought to myself "cool, two deer on opening day" and squeezed off a confident head shot. She disappeared.

I called my dad and he agreed to start working on the head-shot doe while I found blood and trailed the first one. Once the blood trail took me back towards my dad and within about 40 yards of where he was standing I asked him if the deer he was gutting had a hole in the head and chest...yup. The doe I shot ran towards me, laid down to die about 20 yards from me, and I shot her in the head before she could expire from the bullet through the chest.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Shoot 4” behind the crease instead of 1” and recovery rate goes way up. If there was a way to know the actual statistics on lost game I’ll bet way more are lost to shoulder hits than gut shots. Even a liver hit is better than a heavy bone hit in the shoulder. Seems like every rifle hunt I’ve been in with someone else they blow up at least one shoulder and end up eating lead with their meat

 

[waspocrew]

I killed 4 animals with the 145 LRX last season (bull elk, two whitetail bucks, and one muley buck). All were complete pass throughs with very small exits. Luckily, they all died on the spot - otherwise, tracking may have been a bit of a pain.

I still use the 145 LRX since they shoot so well and were on clearance when I bought them , but otherwise, I'd prefer a Berger or ELDM.

 

[KenLee]

Here’s the bullets from my last 4 rifle kills with Barnes TSX out of my old Springfield 30-06. I’ve got a bunch more somewhere. The one that mushroomed the most hit a bone. Two elk, two deer , all died where they were standing when I pulled the trigger. I usually find the bullet in the offside hide, indicating that all the energy went straight into the animal instead of the ground behind it …

Switched to these because partitions were blowing up at close range, even in my old Fudd gun . Not trying to start a lead vs mono debate - just saying if the shot placement is correct, bullet doesn’t really matter. In my experience, hunters shoot too close to the shoulder because we’re so afraid of the dreaded gut shot
View attachment 949086

How close were these 4 shots?

 

[KenLee]

The beauty of tons of practice is knowing where your shot went, particularly when it wasn’t perfect.

Half the folks i know that practice alot still go all goofy when nice racked game appears...including the 2 legged ones.

 

[HunterGatherer]

How close were these 4 shots?

All under 200 yds if I remember correctly…

 

[KenLee]

I don’t like high shoulder. If you were starting at the top of the body cavity, and divided it into quarters, I like the third quarter as my aiming point.

There is a big bunch of major veins and arteries in this area. A bullet here produces a very quick kill.

If im not planning on a shoulder mount, at 80 yards and he's looking at me, I'm gonna cut his head about halfway off with a NBT into his neck. Splat!

 

[KenLee]

All under 200 yds if I remember correctly…

I was comparing to memory of ttsx from a 7mm-08. They work pretty well out to 250 yards.

 

[KenLee]

The lesson that has served me best in my (relatively short) time in the elk woods is an echo of what's already been said, if they are still on their feet and you can see them, KEEP SHOOTING.

My first bull i literally stumbled into, we both stared at each other dumbstruck when we bumped into each other. He spooked out to about 75 yards broadside and I was hiking, rifle over my shoulder. Quickly shouldered my rifle, no rest and let one rip. He was still on his feet, so I quickly racked another and steadied myself and sent #2. Turns out #1 was a complete miss but #2 did the trick and put him down. Barnes TSX 180 gr for what its worth.

Fast forward to a deer hunt last year, i lost a deer on opening weekend of 2nd rifle, absolute gut punch and a poor decision that I regret still. I wounded it but a combo of buck fever and misjudging my holdover led to a wound that I never recovered. Second weekend of the season I had a very comfortable shot on a buck, took my time, was solid, and watched him get very wobbly after about 10 yards but he was still in the open. 0 hesitation sent round #2. I lost some backstrap bc i was higher shooting down, but he dropped on the spot and I have 0 regrets.

I am firmly on the side of keep shooting. "But you'll lose more meat" would you rather lose 5 lb from shot #2 or 200 lb from potentially not recovering the animal?

Sounds like a lot of factors added up but the one that rung familiar to me was not getting the second shot out. Practice the quick follow up shots and always take them. sorry about the luck, best you can do is learn from it and improve for next season!

Rule #3: Can’t eat it if you can't find it.

 

[KenLee]

My old man shot a 1" 4 shot group in a whitetail last season - head propped on a log.

He only quit shooting because he ran out of bullets. That shoulder required a lot of trimming.

Bustemup!

 

[TradLife406]

Shoot a smaller gun with a match bullet is the Rokslide way.

 

[velvet muley]

IMO, being a highly effective tracker would result in way less animals being lost, it is a skill in itself. When I say tracker I don't mean following a blood trail, that is the easy part that anyone can do.

It's when you lose blood which happens quite often. I believe this is one of the things most hunters are lacking in the field, learning how to track animals that stop bleeding and gridding effectively is extremely important.

It's something that comes with a lot of practice and experience when it comes to understanding what elk like to do and understanding how they prefer to use topography.

 

[velvet muley]

I started a thread in the general forum about tracking, maybe everyone can pitch in to help educate and teach people some good tracking methods and advice.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

IMO, being a highly effective tracker would result in way less animals being lost, it is a skill in itself. When I say tracker I don't mean following a blood trail, that is the easy part that anyone can do.

It's when you lose blood which happens quite often. I believe this is one of the things most hunters are lacking in the field, learning how to track animals that stop bleeding and gridding effectively is extremely important.

It's something that comes with a lot of practice and experience when it comes to understanding what elk like to do and understanding how they prefer to use topography.

Several years ago my middle son was hunting with his mom and shot his first bull. I was a mile or so away with oldest son and we heard the shots, got excited but decided to wait until we heard from them to be sure. I guess about an hour or so went by and we just assumed it wasn't them, then we finally got a text stating he shot a bull but they lost it. I wasn't having any of that so we packed up and headed that way, took about another hour to get over there. They'd tracked all over and covered a lot of ground but poor kid was distraught and this papa was determined not to let him down. I had him take me back to the start and we tracked blood til we lost it, then we tracked tracks until they joined a thousand other elk tracks, then we tracked tracks that split off of those tracks down every trail, crossed several stretches of hard rocky ground guessing trajectory based on previous path and most likely direction based on terrain features and cover. Poor kid was poopooing himself pretty hard and pretty disappointing but we kept on through sheer determination and refusal to quit. The look on his eyes when he saw his bull was worth every penny. Great life lesson for him and his mom, although she knew... she kept telling him "wait til dad gets here we're going to find your bull don't worry." If you track like you've got no quit in you it can make a big difference whether you've got skills or not. It wasn't my first time and it won't be my last I'm sure, no special skills just very stubborn.

 

[hibernation]

IMO, being a highly effective tracker would result in way less animals being lost, it is a skill in itself. When I say tracker I don't mean following a blood trail, that is the easy part that anyone can do.

It's when you lose blood which happens quite often. I believe this is one of the things most hunters are lacking in the field, learning how to track animals that stop bleeding and gridding effectively is extremely important.

It's something that comes with a lot of practice and experience when it comes to understanding what elk like to do and understanding how they prefer to use topography.

Most people are pretty bad at trailing wounded game, and there's so many old wives' tales about how animals always do X. Sometimes it's lack of skill, but more often when I've helped people track it's been a lack of focus. Or a lack of reasonable expectations.

When the blood trail stops being obvious, I've seen people shrug and pretty much give up. Then you follow tracks, likely trails, use your intuition, and find a pinprick of blood 100 yards away and they're blown away. Repeat that for awhile and you find an animal they had completely given up on.

 

[np307]

Every situation doesn't need to be minutely specified within statute; it is outside of legal hunting hours, hard stop. Just like felony 6 theft in Colorado is $2000 or more but less than $5000. No logical person is going to say thievery isn't a thing when the value is $3000.

Or that DUI Per Se doesn't apply because the statue reads "BAC is 0.08 or more" and the violator was at 0.10 BAC which is not specifically called out.

Speed Limits? "Yes, trooper I was exceeding the 65mph limit that the sign says, but the sign ONLY had 65 on it and not what my speed was. So, I'm off the hook."

I am 100% certain there are no affirmative defense scenarios to what you described.

Since it looks like the thread has pretty well accomplished what it was supposed to, I'll just add on to this that you're incorrect that it is full-stop illegal. It is specifically given as a caveat that if a permitted dog handler is tracking a wounded animal and obtains permission from a wildlife officer, that they may continue tracking after legal hunting hours and dispatch the animal if it is still alive. https://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/state-regulations/co/

 

[Johnny_Yemon11]

I started a thread in the general forum about tracking, maybe everyone can pitch in to help educate and teach people some good tracking methods and advice.

V

Thread 'How to become a highly effective tracker'

Today at 1:33 PM

Okay, after reading so many lost animal threads over the years in multiple forums I think it would be great to get knowledge from everyone that could help people with the skill of tracking. Hopefully this can be very educational for everyone in some way and prevent some losses of animals.

• velvet muley
• Replies: 14
• Forum: General Discussion Forum

• 

Here’s that link for any future lurkers. Thanks for starting that thread.