Elk advice, 2 lost in a row where am i going wrong?

Good on you for being here to ask for advice. It shows you have the right approach. I’ve done something similar on a big whitetail buck where he went down and I wasn’t ready for an immediate follow-up shot. I also had an 800-yard blood trail from a friend’s buck turn into nothing.

The animals aren’t “tough”, but they can have a lot of will to live.

I’ve recovered deer that “should not have gone anywhere” 400 to 800 yards away from the place I shot them. Good shot placement and good bullet performance usually means DRT, but not always.

The best thing you can do is practice more with a rifle you can shoot a lot so you develop justifiable confidence and make the quick, accurate follow-up shot a muscle memory thing. Also turn, the magnification down to where you can stay roughly on target with the recoil.
 
Losing an animal is why/how I ended up on this site. Lots of arterial blood, decent blood trail, no animal.

Correct, monos aren’t great.

More likely..

Your equipment failed- scope mounting process, loose action screws, Leupold/Vortex shift, bad rings, etc

You failed. Nearly impossible to spot your own shots w >.308 win recoil. You know where you wanted to aim, not where you hit.

There’s a reason a number of us are accused of being groupies. There’s also some of us who have tried all the Rokslide things for our selves and found that they work… consistently.

Get a repeatable setup that holds zero and that you can spot your own shots with (the standard RS special, tikka, .223, SWFA 6x, Sportsmatch or UM rings). Get a 1000 rounds of ammo for it and shoot it all in a spring/summer.

Then, continue to shoot any animal still on its feet.
 
Thank you all, I spent over an hour last night looking and elk anatomy and will be changing my shot placement going forward. Raised as a white tail hunter I was always taught to aim behind the shoulder for a double lung through the ribs. I also on reflection think I have a tendency to aim a bit high in general mid point on the animal instead of 2/3 of the way down. I want to try adjusting my shot placement to the shoulder more inline with the back side of the front leg on a broadside shot especially with bonded bullet as well as shooting lower. I also think the shot I took on the bull was a poor shot angle to take. When I say it was a slight angle quartering towards me what I mean is it was nearly a frontal shot. He was angled off slightly but not much, and I can see now it would be very hard to take out both lungs with this angle. As it relates to shooting I completely agree there is nothing but good in more practice, I've shot 1000s of rounds in my life and I'm confident in my shooting, i test my rifle and shoot steel and paper regulary and always check my zero before a trip. however this doesn't mean me or anyone else is incapable of making a poor shot. Prior to these 2 elk I had never lost any animal in over a dozen years of hunting. That's part of why 2 in a row hurts so bad. That's not to say from the animals I've killed I have never made a bad shot however, I have, and you probably have too. I've taken shots that felt perfect only to find I didn't hit where I aimed and it wasn't a good feeling either. For those I have no explanation. I've also taken shots that felt great and were great. My next range trip I will have someone else load my rifle with a mix of dummy rounds and live rounds to see if I have a flinch.
 
Second shot sounds like you may have hit high, shocked the spine temporarily. I've never seen recovery of an animal that went down and got up and ran away. If they do that it's not a good sign.

Edit: I used to poke fun at Newberg talking about shooting til they're down but after reading a lot of threads like this I can see why.
When I was a kid, my Daddy said if their ear twitches, shoot em again. Had to watch em for 30 minutes ready to shoot again before I could come down in the homemade one piece climber.
 
It has to be shot placement and missing the vitals.

This forum "hates" copper but even a little 6.5 copper round has worked well on elk when I put it where it's supposed to be. Like dead within 50 yards on a bull at 430 yards. I've killed a lot of other stuff with small caliber copper as well.
 
Sounds like you just need more practice. If you do this enough, animals will get away. The mistake is thinking that everything was perfect and it was an anomaly. The problem is always us. Whether it's taking a bad shot or not being as proficient with our weapon as we should.

I have two animals that will always stick with me. Same deal as yours, one fell down and got back up shortly after and one looked like a murder scene from the blood trail and just trickled to nothing.

Since focusing on practice and shooting much more often through the year, I havent had one that didn't drop in sight in a couple years.

Get some ammo and meaningful practice shooting.
 
I read someplace that mist misses are high. I know that's true in my experience.

The bull definitely sounds like you shot high and shocked the spine.
And slipping it between the shoulder and body like the picture isn't a good spot
I'd be aiming low center

If I shoot an animal and it goes directly down it's likely i missed my aimpoint
(unless a head shot :) )
and have another one ready to send if it moves.

The cow I'm suspecting you got one lung. You'll find lots frothy blood, they'll
bed and go and bed and go, but they can go for miles on one lung.

I switched from 300win mag and 7mm wby mag to 223.
Huge improvement. Less wounding & more kills.

Not saying you need a 223, but check out that big thread. Lots of great information
on what exactly kills and why and how to use that info to your advantage
 
Here is an exit on a bull. 300wm Barnes copper (I forget what exact bullet. I think lighter than 180 and the shot was 100 yards. Either way, he did not make it far. IMG_3752.jpeg
 
I spent over an hour last night looking and elk anatomy and will be changing my shot placement going forward. Raised as a white tail hunter I was always taught to aim behind the shoulder for a double lung through the ribs. I also on reflection think I have a tendency to aim a bit high in general mid point on the animal instead of 2/3 of the way down.

As it relates to shooting I completely agree there is nothing but good in more practice, I've shot 1000s of rounds in my life and I'm confident in my shooting, i test my rifle and shoot steel and paper regulary and always check my zero before a trip.
How are you practicing? Outside of a cartridge change, practice in shooting positions with intent will do more for you than banging away a thousand time off of a bench and bags.

I don't think a bullet change or aiming point philosophy will yield a flip in results. Objectively, you missed a target that is dimensionally the size of a 35 gallon trash can. Shifting your aim point a few inches is ignoring that fact, the same with scapegoating the bullet.

That's not to say from the animals I've killed I have never made a bad shot however, I have,
These experiences should highlight how fragile life is when the vitals are hit, and how big of a target those vital areas offer.

Get a rifle you can shoot precisely and practice with it in a manner that replicates hunting.
 
No advice here, just agreeing with MT Terry that most misses are high. Just my own experience with spotting for other guys, either spot the impact or trace and they shoot over a lot. I'll repeat myself from a previous thread, I shoot at full size cardboard Elk and deer targets no spot or dots. It trains my eye to pick a spot to shoot. Just like the archery hunting guys. Always pick a spot. Bummer about the loses.
 
Shoot them until they’re dead, my bull last year got a 300wby to the shoulder with a partition and took two more to finally put him down for good.

I have a friend who shot a cow with a Barnes as well, from 80 yards, double lunged, and watched her for an hour after she bedded down, ended up having to sneak up on her and put another one in to finish the job, perfect shot the first time, so could just be the bullets fault on the cow.

Elk are a ridiculously tough animal.
This popped a question into my head about legality. Say this happens at last night and you approach in your scenario after shooting hours to the elk still moving. What would you do? I know the CO Big Game brochure doesn't cover this but maybe another statute does. What are other states putting out as guidelines in this case?

I've been close to missing the shooting window before so maybe someone has the answer.
 
Losing an animal is why/how I ended up on this site. Lots of arterial blood, decent blood trail, no animal.

Correct, monos aren’t great.

More likely..

Your equipment failed- scope mounting process, loose action screws, Leupold/Vortex shift, bad rings, etc

You failed. Nearly impossible to spot your own shots w >.308 win recoil. You know where you wanted to aim, not where you hit.

There’s a reason a number of us are accused of being groupies. There’s also some of us who have tried all the Rokslide things for our selves and found that they work… consistently.

Get a repeatable setup that holds zero and that you can spot your own shots with (the standard RS special, tikka, .223, SWFA 6x, Sportsmatch or UM rings). Get a 1000 rounds of ammo for it and shoot it all in a spring/summer.

Then, continue to shoot any animal still on its feet.
Kind of my thoughts as well pertaining to possible equipment failure.
 
Thank you all, I spent over an hour last night looking and elk anatomy and will be changing my shot placement going forward. Raised as a white tail hunter I was always taught to aim behind the shoulder for a double lung through the ribs. I also on reflection think I have a tendency to aim a bit high in general mid point on the animal instead of 2/3 of the way down. I want to try adjusting my shot placement to the shoulder more inline with the back side of the front leg on a broadside shot especially with bonded bullet as well as shooting lower. I also think the shot I took on the bull was a poor shot angle to take. When I say it was a slight angle quartering towards me what I mean is it was nearly a frontal shot. He was angled off slightly but not much, and I can see now it would be very hard to take out both lungs with this angle. As it relates to shooting I completely agree there is nothing but good in more practice, I've shot 1000s of rounds in my life and I'm confident in my shooting, i test my rifle and shoot steel and paper regulary and always check my zero before a trip. however this doesn't mean me or anyone else is incapable of making a poor shot. Prior to these 2 elk I had never lost any animal in over a dozen years of hunting. That's part of why 2 in a row hurts so bad. That's not to say from the animals I've killed I have never made a bad shot however, I have, and you probably have too. I've taken shots that felt perfect only to find I didn't hit where I aimed and it wasn't a good feeling either. For those I have no explanation. I've also taken shots that felt great and were great. My next range trip I will have someone else load my rifle with a mix of dummy rounds and live rounds to see if I have a flinch.
Sounds like you have good self awareness and have a solid handle on where to minimize issues going forward.

Everyone visualizes things differently, that’s human nature. I imagine the aiming point for the lungs is a plumb bob hanging down from the spine a bit below center, just behind the front legs. No matter what the angle of the body, if they are way below you, going over a ridge way above you, or walking in a circle, that aiming spot in the middle of the body cavity doesn’t change.
 
Most of the time our mind plays tricks on us, especially when you are excited. Most ppl cant accurately tell you where they aimed/animal was standing/where they hit/where the animal went/what they were doing following a shot. You have to be able to control your shot process and think clearly after the shot! This keeps you from taking poor shots and quickly Identify what to do if it’s a bad hit. Mindless practice on autopilot does not get you there. Figure out what you need to do in practice to accomplish this.

Elk aren’t tougher or difficult to kill they just need an hole through the right spot! Simple solution to a poor shot is just more holes.

FYI - animals can react strangely to different shots placements. I have seen them go down like a cns hit when it’s only a low fringe hit or high shot that misses cns. A single lung shot animal can cover a ton of ground (700 yards is nothing). Certain single lung shots will not be fatal. If aiming on the crease/shoulder it’s easy to do if any angles are involved (elevated position or animals quartering/moving on shot). Liver/guts is fatal but can look like a double lung shot to the untrained eye difficult to track without prints. High double lung and they can easily run 300+ yards without leaving much of a trail. Muscle (chest/brisket/leg) hits can look very promising at first but die out within a few hundred yards.
 
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