Elite Energy 32/Tommy Hogg Problem?

[OR Archer]

This is a problem with some binary cam bows. Some, not all, will have a lot of lateral nock travel resulting in a right tear(right hand shooter) through paper which is why someone would move the rest out to the left. If you are torquing the bow it will only make it worse. You can always shim the cams which will help alleviate
some of the problem but in my opinion you shouldn't need to do this type of fix on a brand new bow.

Also you shouldn't be seeing the cables at full draw. If you are then either the cable rod was moved in or you're torquing the bow hard.

 

[tipsntails7]

Or it's a rest set up improperly with slight hand torque and/or a little head tilt. But by all means, let's amputate what we can bandage.

by all means continue to guess at the problem without seeing the bow at all. your way may work, my way will work. could it be just a rest set up improperly? sure. but if a shop cannot even set a rest to the proper center shot are you gonna trust that they tuned it properly? I guess I don't get it. its a brand new bow to the OP, he should go through the tuning process anyway to ensure the bow is setup properly. its not like he had a previously tuned bow and put a new rest on it.

the sight adjustment tells you his form is incorrect, the rest tells you the bowsomething is not in tune.

 

[tipsntails7]

This is a problem with some binary cam bows. Some, not all, will have a lot of lateral nock travel resulting in a right tear(right hand shooter) through paper which is why someone would move the rest out to the left. If you are torquing the bow it will only make it worse. You can always shim the cams which will help alleviate
some of the problem but in my opinion you shouldn't need to do this type of fix on a brand new bow.

Also you shouldn't be seeing the cables at full draw. If you are then either the cable rod was moved in or you're torquing the bow hard.

From what I understand elite has really cleaned up the lean on the new energys, as far as the cables at draw. my opinion is you want those as close to your fletching as you can with regard to clearance on binary bows. Ive never seen a binary shoot better with more torque on the cables, which is what happens when you move them father out.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

If it's a new bow, you can be 95% sure the company tuned the bow properly. As for tuning the rest, it could be set wrong. Setting it too far left would cause left misses. You're asking a guy to completely take apart his bow under the assumption his left arrow misses are due improperly timed cams. Then you want him to paper tune and bare shaft tune. Assuming he has a bow press and other tools available (like a bare shaft) while on deployment.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. I'm saying look at the basics first, like proper rest alignment and form. Because those will cure most ails. And it's not a band aid approach. It's simple diagnostics of an issue. Just because he's coughing doesn't mean he has tuberculosis.

 

[OR Archer]

Having a cable rod moved that far in can and will cause fletching contact on the cables with even the slightest amount of torque on the bow. Although it may help reduce some cam lean you are more than likely creating another problem by doing so.

Without a yoke to counter act that lean, cams not shimmed properly, and a cable rod out of place its going to tune like crap. Add shooter induced torque into the equation and you have a disaster. Not to mention we have no idea what arrow he is shooting as well which can also be adding to the problems he is experiencing.

 

[OR Archer]

If it's a new bow, you can be 95% sure the company tuned the bow properly.

No bow comes from the factory tuned.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

What's our definition here? Are we talking set to spec, timed, and with proper lean? If so, then yes, they are. If your referring to tuning for the arrow, then obviously not.

 

[tipsntails7]

If it's a new bow, you can be 95% sure the company tuned the bow properly. As for tuning the rest, it could be set wrong. Setting it too far left would cause left misses. You're asking a guy to completely take apart his bow under the assumption his left arrow misses are due improperly timed cams. Then you want him to paper tune and bare shaft tune. Assuming he has a bow press and other tools available (like a bare shaft) while on deployment.

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. I'm saying look at the basics first, like proper rest alignment and form. Because those will cure most ails. And it's not a band aid approach. It's simple diagnostics of an issue. Just because he's coughing doesn't mean he has tuberculosis.

Like a bareshaft??? Does he have arrows?? From my understanding he doesn't have the bow on deployment. I can be 100 percent sure that a brand new bow is not tuned out of the factory. And also cam timing is huge on binary cam bows. If they are not In sync the bow won't shoot.

 

[tipsntails7]

Having a cable rod moved that far in can and will cause fletching contact on the cables with even the slightest amount of torque on the bow. Although it may help reduce some cam lean you are more than likely creating another problem by doing so.

Without a yoke to counter act that lean, cams not shimmed properly, and a cable rod out of place its going to tune like crap. Add shooter induced torque into the equation and you have a disaster. Not to mention we have no idea what arrow he is shooting as well which can also be adding to the problems he is experiencing.

All very good points.

 

[tipsntails7]

What's our definition here? Are we talking set to spec, timed, and with proper lean? If so, then yes, they are. If your referring to tuning for the arrow, then obviously not.

You need to work on more bows, and go to more shops. Bows don't come out of the box with that set the way they should be. Some? Maybe. All? Not a chance.

 

[OR Archer]

What's our definition here? Are we talking set to spec, timed, and with proper lean? If so, then yes, they are. If your referring to tuning for the arrow, then obviously not.

Bows out of the box will be close to spec. Timing and lean are NEVER set from the factory.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

Timing is huge on all bows. And 90% of guys only have fletched arrows to shoot.

 

[tipsntails7]

Timing is huge on all bows. And 90% of guys only have fletched arrows to shoot.

Strip one, add a wrap... Boom bareshaft

 

[HurricaneHuge]

Worked in Wisconsin's top Mathews retailer for 3 years. Rarely was a bow not in spec, timed, and set properly for lean.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

Why am I stripping an arrow if my rest is off by a bit? I'd prefer to keep it fletched.

 

[tipsntails7]

Why am I stripping an arrow if my rest is off by a bit? I'd prefer to keep it fletched.

I'm not even sure what to say to that? Do you know what shooting a bareshaft does?? Apparently not.

 

[OR Archer]

Worked in Wisconsin's top Mathews retailer for 3 years. Rarely was a bow not in spec, timed, and set properly for lean.

You can't compare a single cam to a binary cam when it comes to timing. A single cam does not have timing. It has an optimal cam position but no timing. As far as lean out of the box I will disagree with you all day long on that. It may be close but more times than not it will need to be adjusted to get a good tune. And if you are talking about the AVS system on the Monster series you can't adjust for lean in that as there are no yokes. I would say 9 out of 10 of those need the timing set out of the box also. To assume they are set from the factory is setting yourself up for failure in the tuning process.

 

[HurricaneHuge]

Alright boys, I'm going to take my own advice and quit listening to the guys on the range who have words of "advice". Lastcall I apologize for being apart of this derailment. If you want my help you can PM me.

Where's boom? I like that guy.

 

[MattB]

You can't compare a single cam to a binary cam when it comes to timing. A single cam does not have timing. It has an optimal cam position but no timing.

That is an intersting comment, could you pls expand on it? My understanding is that timing and optimal cam position are synonymous, and that single cams need to be timed but cannot be synchronized due to the lack of an opposing top cam (rather, an idler wheel). I am asking this from a "want to learn" perspective, not "I want to be an argumentative delta bravo" standpoint. ;-)

 

[lastcall]

Thanks for all the info. To answer a few questions, Im deployed and have very few tools here to work with, so no bow press. When I ordered the bow I stressed to the person I talked to about my situation and that I would need the bow/rest D-loop etc set-up and tuned the best they could. I truly believe the they did not.

Im shooting the E32 @70#, 29" draw and arrows are FMJ 400s with 100 grain field points. (the 400s are what the bow shop recomended??)

So heres what i've done so far.

I adjusted the rest centershot to 3/4" off the riser per the owners manual.
Added the spacer to the Tommy between the pin gaurd and the pin gaurd mount.
I shortened my release up a bit, I think that was throwing off my form some. my left arm is bent a little more now and my anchor feels better and the cables are no longer in the sight window.