Electrolyte supplements

[Blockcaver]

I couldn't backpack hunt without using Emergen-C or Gatoraid type supplements due to intense leg cramps. I eat a Mt House packet for supper every night but it does not cure cramps. I typically have to take 1-3 Emergen packs per day during strenuous hunts. Last August was so hot and dry in the NWT I ended up taking as many as 5 per day to stay cramp free and feeling decent. Must be our body chemistry that some of us require the extra electrolytes.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I couldn't backpack hunt without using Emergen-C or Gatoraid type supplements due to intense leg cramps. I eat a Mt House packet for supper every night but it does not cure cramps. I typically have to take 1-3 Emergen packs per day during strenuous hunts. Last August was so hot and dry in the NWT I ended up taking as many as 5 per day to stay cramp free and feeling decent. Must be our body chemistry that some of us require the extra electrolytes.

You described my situation to a T. I add Gatorade powder to all of the water that I drink, excluding cooking water for meals, and this is helped me immensely. I never really thought about Emergen-C, but after reading a little bit about it in this thread, I picked up a box and packed it away for my next mountain hunt.


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[Matt W.]

If your eating mountain house or freeze dried meals you're getting plenty of electrolytes.

Electrolyte supplements and drinks are a genius marketing scam.

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Unless you are someone who battles cramping. We all process water & salts differently.

 

[Bearded Bowhunter]

If you are purely looking for maximum electrolyte replacement, I like to use gatorlytes. Just put them in a container with enough water to mix and take it like a shot. Taste bad but really good for electrolyte replacement.

 

[brocksw]

Absolutely, there is always individual variability. However, there have been numerous physiological studies done on cramping/EAMC's, and the effect of dehydration, hypohydration, and electrolyte intake. They've also done placebo tests and tested other factors in what causes, relieves, and prevents cramps.

What is an exercised induced cramp? It's muscle fatigue. Athletes who drink nothing but gatorade and only play for an hour or two in a game, still experience cramps. The muscle is being overused or is fatigued or they are over heated. What do the trainers do when you cramp up? They massage the muscle and stretch it out.

Proper stretching and training is the most effective way to prevent and relieve cramps. This single fact tells us it has less to do with electrolytes than most think. Furthermore, our sweat has a much much Much lower concentration of electrolytes than the rest of our body. In other words, we don't lose nearly as many electrolytes through sweat as we've been lead to believe. Although, there have been correlations made between people who are "big sweaters" cramping more than those that don't sweat as much. But this could just be a sign of those people sweating more, not being as physically fit as those who sweat less. There is actually balance to shoot for. You reach a point where, through sweating, you are more concentrated with "electrolytes" because you have lost enough water through sweat to achieve an optimal balance for your muscles. You can also sweat to a point where you have way more electrolytes than you need. This is all relevant because sodium is what we lose the most of during sweat, hence the reason a mountain house (stacked with sodium) is one we are typically already replenishing at night.

Unless your diet is causing you to be deficient in electrolytes (higher risk in keto diets), then the more likely causes of cramping are muscle fatigue, lack of mobility in the muscle(s)(lack of stretching), higher internal body temperature (104 max) . All of these things can be fixed or at least aided with proper training.

There is something to be said for stopping and taking an emergenc. Without even thinking about it, you're stopping and resting. Aside from the "electrolytes", the process itself is allowing your body to recover, albeit briefly in some cases.

If a lack of electrolytes was the primary cause, you're whole body would experience muscle spasms and cramps whenever you were "low on electrolytes". The fact that it is always a muscle doing a majority of the work that cramps, tells us that there are other more significant factors at play. Internal body temp, muscle conditioning/fatigue and mobility.

What has been shown, albeit with some lateral movement in interpretation, is that loading up on electrolytes can delay the time it takes to start cramping by 30-50 percent. But there you have to have the right electrolytes and adding sugar to that intake will help with absorption in your small intestine.

So in summation... Do electrolytes help you. Yes, but only to a threshold of intensity. If you're taking 5 emergenc packets a day, you're beyond that threshold and you are lacking in other areas. 5 packets tells you they are not working to prevent... Only slight mitigation.

Want to prevent cramps? Train as hard as you hunt and stretch religiously. You will be far more successful in preventing cramps.

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[toadmeister]

Thanks for everyone'sinput, great thread. I've ordered a couple items per recommendations here to try out.

Like many others in this thread, I get muscle cramps from higher intensity and endurance excersize like summer biking and basketball where I sweat like a beast. I have 2 and 3 year goals for some major hiking and endurance trips (Philmont ranch with Scouts) and Elk hunting.

I too benefit from pre-streatching, warm-ups, hydration, and cool downs. As I get older (44) it gets more challenging. Have done some additional PT in the last year focusing on some weaker areas of the ankles, calves and shoulders.

I've been using Wilderness Athlete's Hydrate & Recover mix and a similar one from Mt Ops with good results. I much prefer them over Gatorade or other sugary sports drinks (always feel crappy after having one). Always looking for something better.

Appreciate all the great experiences shared here.



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[jorgensen.travis]

I had similar questions and did a Google... Not sure it answered my question, but here is what I found.
StopsLegCramps.com - Frequently Asked Questions

After reading that, now I’m sure it’s bullshit.
Thanks


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[Blockcaver]

A lot of my cramps occur at night in the sleeping bag, often several hours after I go to sleep following a hard day on a backcountry hunt. Emergen-C or Gatoraid prevent or will stop the cramping in a minute or two after I drink it.

As a little side-note, I completed my archery sheep grand slam last year (4 of 5 rams do-it-yourself over 37 years), partially due to electrolyte products keeping the cramping under control. As per training, there isn't anything I do that compares to pushing hard in the mountains with the bow in hand. Hiking the mountain behind the house training for a few hours every other day doesn't prepare you for 17 hour days in August in Stone or Dall country. And even after an entire summer/fall of hunting, I still need the electrolytes to feel good and not cramp. YMMV

 

[brocksw]

Unfortunately, that is anecdotal at best. Potassium is intracellular and will take more than a "minute or two" to be absorbed by your body. If you just ate before you slept(even several hours before your cramp) you have plenty of sodium in your body. A nearly insignificant amount of potassium is excreted through sweat.


The better shape I am in... The less I cramp.




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[brocksw]

Here's one of many places you can start to look at the research and testing that has been done (i.e. Rabbit hole)

Increased running speed and previous cramps rather than dehydration or serum sodium changes predict exercise-associated muscle cramping: a prospectiv... - PubMed - NCBI

In this study they actually tested pre and post race serum electrolytes of 210 triathletes competing in an iron man competition.

They found no significant differences in electrolyte levels from those who reported cramps and those that didn't.

There are numerous more studies like this that have been done.

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[Laelkhunter]

How does this work? How does it go from your mouth to your muscles in less than a minute?


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Not sure HOW it works, I only know it DOES work. It even states on the bottle "Stops leg cramps in about one minute". I was skeptical, but I tried it, and it works every time, as advertised. Read the reviews on their website, all are highest ratings that it works. I get the leg and foot cramps mostly while sleeping, and I keep a bottle of this at my bedside. I take a sip or two, and they are gone in seconds. Sells for about $12, and worth every penny when you need it. Might not work for everyone, but you always hear about "pickle juice for cramps" as a solution, so I guess this formula is close to that.

 

[Titan]

There's a bunch of new studies showing that there are nerves in the mouth,throat, and stomach that detect electrolytes and tells muscles to stop cramping. They say it's not the actual electrolytes being absorbed and used by the muscles.

They narrowed it down to a few main chemical triggers - acetic acid (vinegar), citric acid, cinnamon/capsaicin

I have used some of these newer products with success in endurance event.

My point is - I don't think anyone really knows. We have some ideas, but no absolute proof. So I don't really care if its really just mental...if it works, it works.

I don't have as many issues hunting, but I bring some of the same products since I already have them. I just try to bring the least sticky ones. And don't overlook normal products like sour patch kids - delicious and contain citric acid. I use them on my bike as well.

 

[Laelkhunter]

Thanks Titan, I agree. If it works (and it works for me EVERY time), what difference does it make HOW it works. If someone doesn't want to take it because he doesn't know how it works, that is their choice. Maybe they can find something that works better for them, then let us know about it. I would try it on their recommendation.
I had heard about the Caleb Treeze Formula, and took a chance with $12, hoping it would work. It did, so I will keep a bottle handy.

 

[Beendare]

Here's one of many places you can start to look at the research and testing that has been done (i.e. Rabbit hole)

Increased running speed and previous cramps rather than dehydration or serum sodium changes predict exercise-associated muscle cramping: a prospectiv... - PubMed - NCBI

In this study they actually tested pre and post race serum electrolytes of 210 triathletes competing in an iron man competition.

They found no significant differences in electrolyte levels from those who reported cramps and those that didn't.

There are numerous more studies like this that have been done.

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^I totally believe that study....thx for posting.

And THAT totally illustrates why me, a non marathoner....but it also totally reiterates why taking Cytomax works for me- A 60 yr old guy that sometimes hunts or trains too hard.

I get the whole eat right thing....nobody eats more broccoli or Kale than I do........along with balanced protein and some carbs [just too much fats] That still isn't enough to keep my calves from cramping.....Cyto totally stops cramping for me.

I have a buddy that got really bad cramps in his calves at night...to the point he was consulting his doc with different strategies. Nothing worked. The problem he has is he cannot stretch the cramp out as both of his ankles are fused....so he cannot bend his foot back to stretch. I sound like a dang commercial for Cyto I know........but he tells me no cramping- zero- since taking Cyto daily.

 

[Ryan Avery]

^I totally believe that study....thx for posting.

And THAT totally illustrates why me, a non marathoner....but it also totally reiterates why taking Cytomax works for me- A 60 yr old guy that sometimes hunts or trains too hard.

I get the whole eat right thing....nobody eats more broccoli or Kale than I do........along with balanced protein and some carbs [just too much fats] That still isn't enough to keep my calves from cramping.....Cyto totally stops cramping for me.

I have a buddy that got really bad cramps in his calves at night...to the point he was consulting his doc with different strategies. Nothing worked. The problem he has is he cannot stretch the cramp out as both of his ankles are fused....so he cannot bend his foot back to stretch. I sound like a dang commercial for Cyto I know........but he tells me no cramping- zero- since taking Cyto daily.

Do you generally cramp while hiking? That’s my biggest issue. I don’t think I’ve ever had a cramp while sleeping.


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[brocksw]

^I totally believe that study....thx for posting.

And THAT totally illustrates why me, a non marathoner....but it also totally reiterates why taking Cytomax works for me- A 60 yr old guy that sometimes hunts or trains too hard.

I get the whole eat right thing....nobody eats more broccoli or Kale than I do........along with balanced protein and some carbs [just too much fats] That still isn't enough to keep my calves from cramping.....Cyto totally stops cramping for me.

I have a buddy that got really bad cramps in his calves at night...to the point he was consulting his doc with different strategies. Nothing worked. The problem he has is he cannot stretch the cramp out as both of his ankles are fused....so he cannot bend his foot back to stretch. I sound like a dang commercial for Cyto I know........but he tells me no cramping- zero- since taking Cyto daily.

At your age, were no longer having the same discussion.

I notice how cytomax uses sugar as its transporter... Thats very important in the delivery of electrolytes.

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[taggart_lumpy]

work supplies us with wilderness athlete so i can’t complain there. squincher has also worked well for me.

 

[Blockcaver]

Unfortunately, that is anecdotal at best.

Brock, Say what you want and quote all the studies you want about cramps, but I am not lying when I post about something that works for me ...and might work for others. I just picked up my annual supply of Emergen-C and will use it on my hunts. It will control the inevitable cramps that my 65 year old legs are bound to get. Hope you are still able to bowhunt effectively when you are old...I still can, just with a bit of help from electrolytes and at a slower pace!

 

[brocksw]

Unfortunately, that is anecdotal at best.

Brock, Say what you want and quote all the studies you want about cramps, but I am not lying when I post about something that works for me ...and might work for others. I just picked up my annual supply of Emergen-C and will use it on my hunts. It will control the inevitable cramps that my 65 year old legs are bound to get. Hope you are still able to bowhunt effectively when you are old...I still can, just with a bit of help from electrolytes and at a slower pace!

See my previous post in response to Beendare. It's your age. There is a wealth of information out there regarding electrolyte imbalance and fluid pathophysiology in middle to aged to elderly adults. At 65 you're a prime example, especially in physically stressful(illness, injury, physical exertion) situation.

At your age our discussion changes. You'll have to forgive me for assuming that we were talking about younger adults, although I was starting to become suspicious a few of you might be of an older generation.

Indeed, you will benefit from a more faithful regiment of electrolyte supplements. However, this is more of an electrolyte balance situation than a lack of present electrolytes in your body.



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[Blockcaver]

Brock...you are just like my stinking Dr who can't believe that I don't have any heart plaque at my age. Young know it alls!!!! Just kidding, have a good year hunting, and don't doubt age and wisdom!!