ELD-X issues

[deltadukman]

Not Hornaday specific, but odd thing happening. I shot a very large whitetail at 200 yards with a .300wm shooting 185 Berger Classic Hunter at 3015 mv. Deer jumped off like he hadn't been hit. End up finding him not 50 yards away. Upon caping him and then skinning completely, there was not visible entry or exit wound. No holes in his body that I could find. No blood anywhere, but the inside of his chest cavity looked like the Northern Lights, black, blue, purple, yellow, green. Obviously, it got in there and wrecked it however after thorough inspection, I could find no entry would. To this day I have no idea what happened. The next day I shot a doe at the same distance and it was a crime scene both entry and exit. All that to say, stuff happens.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Links to your referenced Gel tests?

Lots more where that came from! If you have google

“”
This fragmentation results in poor weight retention and penetration, which can make them unreliable for taking down medium to large game, unlike bonded bullets. While Hornady states they are designed to perform at ranges as low as 1,600 fps, high-velocity impacts can cause them to "blow up".

Causes of failure

• High-velocity impacts: At close range, the high impact velocity can cause the jacket and core to separate prematurely.
• Jacket core separation: The bullet's non-bonded design is susceptible to the jacket peeling back from the core, leading to a loss of penetration.
• Inconsistent performance: Some tests show inconsistent performance, with a mix of bullets either fragmenting or holding together as intended.

Performance concerns

• Poor penetration: Fragmentation can prevent the bullet from achieving sufficient penetration through the animal's vitals.
• Lack of exit wound: Poor penetration means there may not be an exit wound, which can make it difficult to find a blood trail.
• Weight retention: Recovered bullets have shown significantly lower weight retention than claimed, sometimes as low as 33%. ””

 

[HunterGatherer]

Not Hornaday specific, but odd thing happening. I shot a very large whitetail at 200 yards with a .300wm shooting 185 Berger Classic Hunter at 3015 mv. Deer jumped off like he hadn't been hit. End up finding him not 50 yards away. Upon caping him and then skinning completely, there was not visible entry or exit wound. No holes in his body that I could find. No blood anywhere, but the inside of his chest cavity looked like the Northern Lights, black, blue, purple, yellow, green. Obviously, it got in there and wrecked it however after thorough inspection, I could find no entry would. To this day I have no idea what happened. The next day I shot a doe at the same distance and it was a crime scene both entry and exit. All that to say, stuff happens.

That brings to mind one of the strangest kills I ever witnessed. My cousin shot a small muley at about 400yds with a Barnes in my -06. We watched the deer stumble a couple of times and fall over.

When we got down and started skinning the only sign that I could find that the bullet contacted the deer was a very light graze on the brisket. Wasn’t a drop of blood anywhere. The bullet never entered the thoracic cavity or made any kind of a hole but that deer died like it had been heart shot.

At home when we started butchering the heart we found the tiniest little spot of bloodshot in the heart, like way smaller than a pin head. I think a tiny fragment split off from the graze and made that little micro-channel and the heart lost pressure. Crazy

 

[Formidilosus]

The ELDX is inconsistent at best, and it’s not just the 3 animals I saw killed with it this year ( 5 bullets recovered). The online gel tests confirm it. Some bullets perform just fine and then you get ones that absolutely grenade or get 1/2 the penetration as the other bullets in the group. I think this is an inherent problem with unbonded bullets. When the core and jacket divorce, unpredictable things happen.

The factory ammo is terribly inconsistent and there is no quality control. Recent threads here have shown bad cases, loose bullets in boxes, etc. So, reload them then right ? It’s still the same inconsistency in terminal performance.

That’s not remotely how they work.

 

[Formidilosus]

Lots more where that came from! If you have google

“”
This fragmentation results in poor weight retention and penetration, which can make them unreliable for taking down medium to large game, unlike bonded bullets. While Hornady states they are designed to perform at ranges as low as 1,600 fps, high-velocity impacts can cause them to "blow up".

Causes of failure

• High-velocity impacts: At close range, the high impact velocity can cause the jacket and core to separate prematurely.
• Jacket core separation: The bullet's non-bonded design is susceptible to the jacket peeling back from the core, leading to a loss of penetration.
• Inconsistent performance: Some tests show inconsistent performance, with a mix of bullets either fragmenting or holding together as intended.

Performance concerns

• Poor penetration: Fragmentation can prevent the bullet from achieving sufficient penetration through the animal's vitals.
• Lack of exit wound: Poor penetration means there may not be an exit wound, which can make it difficult to find a blood trail.
• Weight retention: Recovered bullets have shown significantly lower weight retention than claimed, sometimes as low as 33%. ””

That is not factually correct- any of it.

 

[deltadukman]

That brings to mind one of the strangest kills I ever witnessed. My cousin shot a small muley at about 400yds with a Barnes in my -06. We watched the deer stumble a couple of times and fall over.

When we got down and started skinning the only sign that I could find that the bullet contacted the deer was a very light graze on the brisket. Wasn’t a drop of blood anywhere. The bullet never entered the thoracic cavity or made any kind of a hole but that deer died like it had been heart shot.

At home when we started butchering the heart we found the tiniest little spot of bloodshot in the heart, like way smaller than a pin head. I think a tiny fragment split off from the graze and made that little micro-channel and the heart lost pressure. Crazy

The only, and I mean only thing I can think of is that the deer was in a cut corn field and I was literally posted up by my friends' parents' mailbox and spit rail wood fence. We were basically eye level. The only thing I can think happened is the bullet hit something between he and I and it fragmented and a little sliver hit him somewhere. But his chest cavity was all kinds of colors, and I have a hard time believing a 185gr Berger fragmented on a corn stalk. The oddest kill I have ever seen and I have seen or been a part of a lot of whitetail deer kills.

 

[S-3 ranch]

That’s not remotely how they work.

I respectfully disagree.
Every single game animal I have seen shot with a eldx or M , has core separation, imo Hornady messed up when they discontinued the interbond
They seemed to have a good combination of expansion and weight retention
If shooting Hornady is your thing the interlock is better IMO

 

[HunterGatherer]

A few anecdotal examples from this season on elk. Deviation I chrono’d was similar to the discrepancies in the videos above… how many examples do we need of separated bullets to confirm that a cup and core will separate in animals and do weird stuff

 

[HunterGatherer]

From SG3 video in gel …

 

[HunterGatherer]

To know that this is what controlled expansion actually looks like…

 

[Formidilosus]

I respectfully disagree.
Every single game animal I have seen shot with a eldx or M , has core separation, imo Hornady messed up when they discontinued the interbond
They seemed to have a good combination of expansion and weight retention
If shooting Hornady is your thing the interlock is better IMO

Your supposition is that core separation means “doesn’t kill well”. Your base belief is incorrect. And you repeatedly fail to understand, acknowledge, or recognize that.

Terminal ballistic fact: as long as the vitals get a hole through them, larger (wider) wounds cause more rapid incapacitation. Bullets that fragments create larger (wider) wounds than bullets that do not. Bullets that fragment (core separation) cause faster incapacitation.

There is no argument if you, or anyone prefers less meat damage. However, you are factually wrong to say that a bullet fragmenting, or not exiting is less effective at killing- that’s demonstrably untrue and has been shown to be untrue in every legitimate terminal ballistic testing that has taken place.

 

[Formidilosus]

A few anecdotal examples from this season on elk. Deviation I chrono’d was similar to the discrepancies in the videos above… how many examples do we need of separated bullets to confirm that a cup and core will separate in animals and do weird stuff

Who cares if the core separates. How a bullet looks after it has killed an animal has no correlation (actually it does in the opposite way) to how well it killed an animal.

 

[Formidilosus]

To know that this is what controlled expansion actually looks like…
View attachment 964833

Yes. Very narrow wounds, longer incapacitation time in average, more distance traveled after impact.

 

[HunterGatherer]

I’ve seen way too many elk die from broadheads in less than 30 seconds to buy into the idea that a varmint grenade bullet blowing off the front shoulder is a cleaner or faster kill.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Who cares if the core separates. How a bullet looks after it has killed an animal has no correlation (actually it does in the opposite way) to how well it killed an animal.

The OP cares, which was the whole point of this thread to begin with. He doesn’t want bullet fragments in his meat… then you say “who cares if the core seperates ?” Do you want frags in your meat ? Because that’s how you get frags in your meat.

 

[Formidilosus]

The OP cares, which was the whole point of this thread to begin with. He doesn’t want bullet fragments in his meat… then you say “who cares if the core seperates ?” Do you want frags in your meat ? Because that’s how you get frags in your meat.

This is the OP. Can you point out where anything was said about fragments in meat?

 

[HunterGatherer]

This is the OP. Can you point out where anything was said about fragments in meat?


View attachment 964849

wrong thread. I stand corrected. Sorry I’ve been trashing these bullets in multiple threads and then one got moved . Apologies about that part. But the point stands - if you’re going to eat the thing, blowing it up is not the most efficient way to gather its meat. Making the hamburger at home is preferable to making it in the field. We don’t need to kill it harder just because

 

[Formidilosus]

I’ve seen way too many elk die from broadheads in less than 30 seconds to buy into the idea that a varmint grenade bullet blowing off the front shoulder is a cleaner or faster kill.

Ok. You need to “buy” into anything- actually go kill 30+ big game animals with the same rifle, at nearly the same ranges with ELD-X’ and 30+ with Barnes TTSX. Record animal reaction, how long after the shot they were on their feet, and total distance traveled.

30 seconds is hundreds of yards of potential movement. Average distance traveled after impact is double with concentration mono’s than it is rapidly upsetting lead core bullets.

 

[Formidilosus]

wrong thread. I stand corrected. Sorry I’ve been trashing these bullets in multiple threads and then one got moved . Apologies about that part. But the point stands - if you’re going to eat the thing, blowing it up is not the most efficient way to gather its meat. Making the hamburger at home is preferable to making it in the field. We don’t need to kill it harder just because

That’s right- all you’ve been doing “trashing” in every thread you can- not learning, not gaining or sharing knowledge.

 

[S-3 ranch]

I don’t think anyone has said a highly frangable bullet doesn’t kill, they just make a absolute mess and distribute lead in the meat, which actually makes for a easier recovery in heavy brush and cactus in southern Texas , but do make a huge mess IMO.