ELD-M in .308 Questions from a Beginner

[Bugaboo]

Hey Guys!

Coming to you today for a few questions on Bullets and Calibers.. I know it's beating a dead horse on that topic, but I would like to have a couple things cleared up.

I got myself a T3x S/S in .308 last year (knowing what I know now, I'd like to have it in 6.5 CM, but funds won't allow new guns atm)

I shot one Muley and a Whitetail last fall, using 150 gr core lokts, both sub 100 yards and didn't make it more than 50 yards

For this year I have a Goat Tag and also both WT and MD Tags, so I started doing some research because I thought I needed to "upgrade" bullets from the cheap stuff.

Read a bunch of threads, listened to form on various podcasts, went out and bought myself Hornady Superperfomance ELD-Murders in 168gr.

During all that, a few Questions came up and I would love the input of you experienced guys.

1. Understanding that both corelokts/powershoks and ELD X/M are cup and core bullets (right?) is there a difference in Terminal ballistics between them? I understand/assume that due to a better BC and different speed the external ballistics are different. but what about terminal ballistics?

2. when Form talks about which bullet to use, he recommends "Rapidly expanding, heavy for caliber bullets". I'm not sure if I misunderstood Caliber and cartridge here? Because a 168 is heavy for the .308 win (so cartridge) but compared to the rest of the .30 cals(caliber) it's fairly light? is heavy for cartridge the same as heavy for caliber?

3. It's obvious that a dead animal with much meat loss is better than one that got away with little meat loss, but there has to be an acceptable line between dead/usable meat. I don't doubt the 168 eldms killing ability one bit, I'm actually a bit scared that it will be overkill out of my .308? Just stay away from the shoulder if possible?

Sorry for the rambling and the bad english, not a native speaker!

Thanks a bunch!

 

[Taudisio]

Hey Guys!

Coming to you today for a few questions on Bullets and Calibers.. I know it's beating a dead horse on that topic, but I would like to have a couple things cleared up.

I got myself a T3x S/S in .308 last year (knowing what I know now, I'd like to have it in 6.5 CM, but funds won't allow new guns atm)

I shot one Muley and a Whitetail last fall, using 150 gr core lokts, both sub 100 yards and didn't make it more than 50 yards

For this year I have a Goat Tag and also both WT and MD Tags, so I started doing some research because I thought I needed to "upgrade" bullets from the cheap stuff.

Read a bunch of threads, listened to form on various podcasts, went out and bought myself Hornady Superperfomance ELD-Murders in 168gr.

During all that, a few Questions came up and I would love the input of you experienced guys.

1. Understanding that both corelokts/powershoks and ELD X/M are cup and core bullets (right?) is there a difference in Terminal ballistics between them? I understand/assume that due to a better BC and different speed the external ballistics are different. but what about terminal ballistics?

2. when Form talks about which bullet to use, he recommends "Rapidly expanding, heavy for caliber bullets". I'm not sure if I misunderstood Caliber and cartridge here? Because a 168 is heavy for the .308 win (so cartridge) but compared to the rest of the .30 cals(caliber) it's fairly light? is heavy for cartridge the same as heavy for caliber?

3. It's obvious that a dead animal with much meat loss is better than one that got away with little meat loss, but there has to be an acceptable line between dead/usable meat. I don't doubt the 168 eldms killing ability one bit, I'm actually a bit scared that it will be overkill out of my .308? Just stay away from the shoulder if possible?

Sorry for the rambling and the bad english, not a native speaker!

Thanks a bunch!

Congrats on your tag!

1. Yes technically they are all cup/core. That’s a manufacturing term. A cup is formed with the jacket (a copper mix) then they put a lead mix in it. Then form the nose/ogive, holding the lead in. The corelokt, eld-x and I believe the power-shoks have an extra “ring” of jacket that is to try and stop the core separating from the jacket. It helps, but a lot of the time they lose the lead core anyway. The eldm does not have this ring. The terminal ballistics of your list of bullets will be similar. They are all known as being on the softer side (fragment more/penetrate less). Also, if your rifle is shooting the corelokts well enough for your intended range, they will kill a goat just fine.

2. Caliber and cartridge is used interchangeably by a lot of people.
In my opinion, your 168s will be just fine. They are what I consider “medium weight” for the 308. The 175gr+ would be my idea of heavy for the cartridge. A 210gr-250gr would be heavy for the 30’s. I’ve not heard of many folks putting anything over 180’s in the 308. They run out of powder capacity, and velocity, especially when I think a 20” barrel on a 308 is pretty standard. My personal 308 is 16” and I won’t shoot over 165’s in it.

3. No such thing as overkill! Just maybe “it causes excessive meat damage”
I always try to shoot my game in the ribs and stay off the shoulder no matter the bullet choice. I don’t like losing meat and all bullets will give you some meat loss. Not much meat to take off the ribs anyway. The good thing is that (from the videos I’ve seen) goats can absorb a bit of punishment and they are typically in precarious spots. Sometimes you need them dead right where they are or it can turn into a nightmare. I haven’t tried goat personally, but the meat has mixed reviews. Knowing that a fella could need to put it down on the spot, a shoulder shot with a bit more frangible bullet should give you better odds to shut it down. I would be less concerned with losing 5 pounds of meat over the animal tumbling off a cliff, or going into an area that makes it un-retrievable. On your deer hunts, I would only be shooting them in the ribs myself.

Hope this helps!

 

[bnsafe]

fwiw, I have that rifle and shoot nosler trophy grade 165 gr ballistic tips out of it. outstanding results but can be hard on meat. Im thinking accubonds for bigger stuff like elk moose etc

 

[AK4570]

Fellow Tikka .308/168 ELD-M shooter here... It's my "anything and everything" combo. Keep them off the meat and you'll be fine. They just plain work.

Here's my current load (gonna need to find a replacement for Alliant products at some point)

168 ELD-M
43 gr R15
WLR
2.81"
LC 94 brass (fired out of a 249... used to pick it up by the bucket load back in the .mil days)
Groups just over an inch (1.21" avg.) @ 100 for a 10-shot group.

Go forth and kill tasty critters with confidence; you've got a highly effective hunting combo there.

Best regards,
John

 

[BKM]

I think 165-168 is really the sweet spot with a .308win. If your a hand loader Ramshot Big Game gets you into 30-06 velocity without going over book max. It was also the most accurate powder in my .308

I used a 165sst and it was like lightning on deer.

 

[LightFoot]

I would not hesitate to use the ELD-M, but…

I like the 178 ELD-X better. I think that is nearly a perfect all-around bullet for the 308.


>>>——JAKE——>

 

[grfox92]

I would not hesitate to use the ELD-M, but…

I like the 178 ELD-X better. I think that is nearly a perfect all-around bullet for the 308.


>>>——JAKE——>

What do you like better about the ELDX?

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

 

[rifletuner]

My son used his 308Win for a fallow deer (about whitetail sized) a few years ago. We loaded it with the 178gn ELDX. He shot a doe at 100 yards and a busk at 180 yards. Performance on both was excellent. The doe was shot just behind the shoulder and ran maybe 20 yards. The buck was a high shoulder shot and dropped on the spot. I would have no issue using the 178ELDX for pretty much anything I would hunt with a 308.

 

[LightFoot]

What do you like better about the ELDX?

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

The short answer is that I’ve had success with the factory loads.

I don’t think the extra weight is needed but I like the idea of heavier cup & core projectiles. But in the end, I’d go with a 0.5 MOA ELD-M over a 1.0 MOA ELD-X.


>>>——JAKE——>

 

[Bugaboo]

Congrats on your tag!

1. Yes technically they are all cup/core. That’s a manufacturing term. A cup is formed with the jacket (a copper mix) then they put a lead mix in it. Then form the nose/ogive, holding the lead in. The corelokt, eld-x and I believe the power-shoks have an extra “ring” of jacket that is to try and stop the core separating from the jacket. It helps, but a lot of the time they lose the lead core anyway. The eldm does not have this ring. The terminal ballistics of your list of bullets will be similar. They are all known as being on the softer side (fragment more/penetrate less). Also, if your rifle is shooting the corelokts well enough for your intended range, they will kill a goat just fine.

2. Caliber and cartridge is used interchangeably by a lot of people.
In my opinion, your 168s will be just fine. They are what I consider “medium weight” for the 308. The 175gr+ would be my idea of heavy for the cartridge. A 210gr-250gr would be heavy for the 30’s. I’ve not heard of many folks putting anything over 180’s in the 308. They run out of powder capacity, and velocity, especially when I think a 20” barrel on a 308 is pretty standard. My personal 308 is 16” and I won’t shoot over 165’s in it.

3. No such thing as overkill! Just maybe “it causes excessive meat damage”
I always try to shoot my game in the ribs and stay off the shoulder no matter the bullet choice. I don’t like losing meat and all bullets will give you some meat loss. Not much meat to take off the ribs anyway. The good thing is that (from the videos I’ve seen) goats can absorb a bit of punishment and they are typically in precarious spots. Sometimes you need them dead right where they are or it can turn into a nightmare. I haven’t tried goat personally, but the meat has mixed reviews. Knowing that a fella could need to put it down on the spot, a shoulder shot with a bit more frangible bullet should give you better odds to shut it down. I would be less concerned with losing 5 pounds of meat over the animal tumbling off a cliff, or going into an area that makes it un-retrievable. On your deer hunts, I would only be shooting them in the ribs myself.

Hope this helps!

Yes, thanks a lot!

 

[Bugaboo]

Fellow Tikka .308/168 ELD-M shooter here... It's my "anything and everything" combo. Keep them off the meat and you'll be fine. They just plain work.

Here's my current load (gonna need to find a replacement for Alliant products at some point)

168 ELD-M
43 gr R15
WLR
2.81"
LC 94 brass (fired out of a 249... used to pick it up by the bucket load back in the .mil days)
Groups just over an inch (1.21" avg.) @ 100 for a 10-shot group.

Go forth and kill tasty critters with confidence; you've got a highly effective hunting combo there.

Best regards,
John

Not a handloader myself, but I hope the Superperfomance from Hornady will work just as well!

 

[Antares]

Here’s my dirty, little .308 Tikka secret.

I shoot the Hornady Black 168 AMAX factory load. Groups well for me, the AMAX is a devastating hunting bullet (its predecessor to the ELDM), and it’s cheap ($35/box).

 

[cgavason]

I recently cut my barrel on my Tikka down to 18”. Prior to the cut I had good handloads using Varget/165 Interbonds. After the cut Hornady Superformance 168gr actually shot better in my Tikka than my handloads. I haven’t worked up new loads yet. Honestly I may not with how well that factory load shoots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JT47L]

The 168gr ELDM will work great for whitetail and muleys out of your .308, there will be some meat loss but the 168 ELDM has good terminal ballistics.

 

[N2TRKYS]

165 grain Accubond is what I shoot in mine. They perform great.

 

[roosiebull]

Here’s my dirty, little .308 Tikka secret.

I shoot the Hornady Black 168 AMAX factory load. Groups well for me, the AMAX is a devastating hunting bullet (its predecessor to the ELDM), and it’s cheap ($35/box).

When I get through my terminal ascents, I’ll be switching to the AMAX, to me it seems about perfect for 308 velocity, but obviously the eld m and x are very well suited as well