Efficacy of Predator Management

[Coyote Commander]

The problem with “poisoning” in this day age is there’s just to many people on the landscape farting around anymore.

And everyone’s trying to get someone else in trouble.

Even M-44 usage today. Places the old timers used to “getter gun” the snot out of canines a guy would be foolish to set today.

These days a guy has to be real thoughtful about what he uses and where he uses it.

 

[ThunderJack49]

Eagles will readily go into heavy overhead brush to a bait.

I’ve regularly seen eagles land outside of heavy brush and walk 50-100 yards into the bait.

Eagles not only will eat dead coyotes, they PREFER them over just about anything else (except maybe a $500 bobcat).

I’ve got eagles hunting the timber on my property right now for feral cats, and it’s very thick in there.

 

[ThunderJack49]

That’s not really true honestly.

We spent 10 years doing depredation for ground squirrels and coyotes, shooting nearly daily on ranches in Northern California.

We had over 10,000 acres at our disposal and used side by sides and pickups and were incredibly effective at killing them.

The coyotes, while you can keep the numbers down quite well, still find a way to have enough of them to still give us daily kills. We even eradicated dozens of dens over the years killing 6-10 pups per den.

Life still finds a way with that much terrain and plentiful food and water supplies.

View attachment 925553

Did suppressing the coyote population have the desired effect on that property?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Did suppressing the coyote population have the desired effect on that property?

Ehhhhhh. This one would require a detailed novel haha.

Very overarching the answer would be yes.

 

[mt terry d]

Eagles will readily go into heavy overhead brush to a bait.

I’ve regularly seen eagles land outside of heavy brush and walk 50-100 yards into the bait.

Eagles not only will eat dead coyotes, they PREFER them over just about anything else (except maybe a $500 bobcat).

That's good info to know.

If I were King of the World I'd ask you to be part of a team to
be in charge of predator management.

Something else that was lightly touched on previously: How many eagles/raptors
would die in relation to the amount of coyotes killed? I'm sure in our area we could
spare some. Though according to WRO that wouldn't need to be a problem.

Okay, WRO, meet Coyote Commander . You're volunteered to be on the team

 

[WRO]

That's good info to know.

If I were King of the World I'd ask you to be part of a team to
be in charge of predator management.

Something else that was lightly touched on previously: How many eagles/raptors
would die in relation to the amount of coyotes killed? I'm sure in our area we could
spare some. Though according to WRO that wouldn't need to be a problem.

Okay, WRO, meet Coyote Commander . You're volunteered to be on the team

No comment .

I've been privy to some pretty heavy handed ongoing predator control programs. The results speak for themselves. That being said, you don't solve it, it requires ongoing efforts year round. I'd put snaring first for legal methods, helicopters in spring work great, guys calling is way down the list.

 

[RockAndSage]

No comment .

I've been privy to some pretty heavy handed ongoing predator control programs. The results speak for themselves. That being said, you don't solve it, it requires ongoing efforts year round. I'd put snaring first for legal methods, helicopters in spring work great, guys calling is way down the list.

But every kill still helps...

 

[WRO]

But every kill still helps...

Agreed.

If it’s got claws it’s suspect at best..


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[mt terry d]

But every kill still helps...

Bounty

 

[Coyote Commander]

But every kill still helps...

I could argue that! Haha


If they educate 20 to get that one kill…….

 

[rookieforever33]

Ive had racoons eat a frozen rabbit 5 hours after I staked it to the ground. It wouldn't surprise me if they ate a fawn given a chance. I do not believe we should, or could eliminate predators without extreme measures. But most predators do not have predators after them. It falls on us at the top of the food chain to help control their populations.

 

[Long Cut]

I’ll happily revive this thread.

Dr. Craig Harper is a staple in the Habitat Management realm down here in the Southeast. In this clip, he describes how landowners in TN boost their turkey population with just trapping raccoons alone.

I do not buy the claims “they will be backfilled”… I just recently heard on a FoxPro Podcast this was some Anti-Hunter rhetoric to discourage outdoorsmen from trapping/hunting varmints.

Anywho… video below

 

[mt terry d]

Bounty

^^ I repeat^^
It works.
Oh , wait.
That’s exactly why we can’t do it.
Never mind

 

[omicron1792]

I’ll happily revive this thread.

Dr. Craig Harper is a staple in the Habitat Management realm down here in the Southeast. In this clip, he describes how landowners in TN boost their turkey population with just trapping raccoons alone.

I do not buy the claims “they will be backfilled”… I just recently heard on a FoxPro Podcast this was some Anti-Hunter rhetoric to discourage outdoorsmen from trapping/hunting varmints.

Anywho… video below

Craig Harper is the man

 

[Nine Banger]

I do not buy the claims “they will be backfilled”… I just recently heard on a FoxPro Podcast this was some Anti-Hunter rhetoric to discourage outdoorsmen from trapping/hunting varmints.

I spend too much time thinking about this kind of stuff.

I bet the backfilling depends on geography and habitat.

My AO is the edge and bottom of a drainage surrounded by obsessive mowers/groomers, equestrians and hobby farmers.

There is a little old growth bottomland forest where tractors could never go but its a very small percentage of land coverage. The predominant "forest" around here is early successional fields with a 10" mat of pine straw on the ground with scant sunlight reaching the forest floor.

We have more carrying capacity than any of the neighbors.

I am the only landowner trapping.

I think they come pouring back in but more because we have the habitat equivalent of the nicest grocery store in town.

These observations are based on about 10 years of trapping off and on within the same property and having a year round trapping permit last year, and then trapping again this year so far.

It seems like with canines you can kind of round em up and then its a dead line but with coons and opossums they just keep coming.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Iowa has continous open season for raccoons and coyotes. They're rotten in every county, and it absolutely takes a concerted effort of hunting and trapping all year round to make a dent.

 

[wildwilderness]

If you are just judging backfill off of calling and shooting then you may think you are putting a dent in the population but really you are just educating predators and not seeing as many any more….


Trapping/snaring (poison) is way way more effective and most would be surprised how many predators you kill and they keep coming and coming.


I hunted a 1500 acre lease in Arkansas for a number of years we would see 1-2 coyotes during season. My buddy who lived nearby started trapping coyotes (bobcats and foxes too) and would get 25-30 multiple years in a row. Just took up too much time to stay on top of it and he quit doing it. Didn’t really notice a difference in deer but turkeys respond quickly.

Wolves and larger apex predators are different than coyotes and other meso predators. Apex ones are less numerous and reproduction is also limited so you can get ahead of them. Wolves won’t reproduce without a pack and only the Alpha male and female breed so breaking up packs and killing Alphas you can extirpate wolves from an area. Still takes a lot of concerted effort for multiple years helps as well if their food base is reduced as well like the 1900’s where sheep, deer, elk, bison etc were at super low populations in the western US

 

[Nine Banger]

Didn’t really notice a difference in deer but turkeys respond quickly.

I've noticed 2 things with deer and coyotes.

The deer get startled when a coyote moves into abruptly to a call at night, but once they react they don't seem to care. Bystanders, really.

Also in my area where there are tons of deer and some coyotes and tons of raccoons, there are always tons of deer and coyotes and raccoons. Fawn mortality by coyote and raccoon can't be "a thing" at least here in my AO.

 

[WRO]

1080 is back so hopefully that will help


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[Skerhunter]

I spend too much time thinking about this kind of stuff.

I bet the backfilling depends on geography and habitat.

My AO is the edge and bottom of a drainage surrounded by obsessive mowers/groomers, equestrians and hobby farmers.

There is a little old growth bottomland forest where tractors could never go but its a very small percentage of land coverage. The predominant "forest" around here is early successional fields with a 10" mat of pine straw on the ground with scant sunlight reaching the forest floor.

We have more carrying capacity than any of the neighbors.

I am the only landowner trapping.

I think they come pouring back in but more because we have the habitat equivalent of the nicest grocery store in town.

These observations are based on about 10 years of trapping off and on within the same property and having a year round trapping permit last year, and then trapping again this year so far.

It seems like with canines you can kind of round em up and then its a dead line but with coons and opossums they just keep coming.

I agree, it’s not magic or a futile effort.

It’s just not fur bearers either. Animals disperse and areas with the best resources (sanctuary included) fill back up pretty quick, if the surrounding areas have a higher population. I’ve also seen the opposite when disease or over hunting occurs in surrounding areas and animals disperse back out. It’s just a simple balance of resources.

I’ve trapped/hunted some feed yards and those place are a giant factory for fur bearers. Dead piles and open water attract coyotes from miles away. Open feed storage like silage piles can feed dozens of raccoons through the winter. Feed bunks/hay piles keep the mice/rats going which keeps a few fox and bobcats fed. You can trap them out fairly quickly, but by the next season more just move back in for the food/water.