EBikes and the Forest Service

[ez_willie]

Incorrect. You can ride it on BLM land unless the MVUM (you need a current one for your area) says you can't. On USFS land, any class of e-bike can ONLY be ridden where "motorized vehicles" are allowed (quads/cars). If they are not specifically marked as allowed, they are NOT allowed. It doesn't matter whether you're packing camp/game or not. Also, in "Wilderness Areas" you can't even used non-motorized vehicles, like regular bicycles or game carts.

I still don’t understand the point of having all the exceptions in the rules like b.”hunters may use a motorized vehicle to retrieve downed game if such travel is allowed by the land owner or manager.” I mean if it’s public federal land do I have to write myself permission? Does anyone know the fine amount? Less than an paying an outfitter if I had to guess.

 

[taskswap]

I still don’t understand the point of having all the exceptions in the rules like b.”hunters may use a motorized vehicle to retrieve downed game if such travel is allowed by the land owner or manager.” I mean if it’s public federal land do I have to write myself permission? Does anyone know the fine amount? Less than an paying an outfitter if I had to guess.

That is an Idaho state exception. You're dealing with different agencies here. The non-motorized rules from the USFS are established at the Federal level, by the USFS. Some USFS land is in Idaho. Idaho is saying "we're cool with it if they're cool with." (USFS is not cool with it but some landowner might be.)

It's like asking your dad if you can have a soda and he says "go ask your mother." He doesn't care, but your mother probably does. If you're at grandma's, and your dad says it's OK, and your grandma says it's OK, you're getting a soda. But at home, your mom might say no. Location matters. Make sense?

And no, you cannot "write yourself permission." Being public land doesn't make it YOUR land exclusively - it's mine, too, and every other citizen's. That's what "land owner or manager" means. The USFS is the manager of that land (assuming a USFS parcel). Idaho does not have the authority to set the rules for what happens there - the USFS does. They're just acknowledging that.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

There are 3 classes of E-bikes, Class 1 is pedal assist and the class that is allowed on some forest service land where I live that is posted non motorized, So there are some areas where you can legally ride an E bike with a motor.
Each area within the forest service lands has the ability to change trail use restrictions.

Can you provide a source of said USFS that allows any class of Ebike on non motorized trials in Idaho, or anywhere?

 

[taskswap]

If anybody wants to check things out "from the source" here's where to start:

Electric Bicycle Use | US Forest Service

Forest Service Statement on Electric Bicycle Use:

www.fs.usda.gov

Note that the document referenced here in "7700 Travel Management - Zero Code" is NOT a rule-making document. It provides DEFINITIONS. But you need to start there because when you read rules, those definitions are what they're talking about. It specifically defines e-bikes as follows:

Electric Bicycle (E-Bike). Also referred to as an electric mountain bike (eMTB), a type of motor vehicle with two or three wheels, fully operable pedals, and an electric motor of not more than 750 watts that meets the requirements of one of the following three classes:

a. Class 1 E-Bike. An e-bike equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

b. Class 2 E-Bike. An e-bike equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the e-bike and that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

c. Class 3 E-Bike. An e-bike equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the e-bike reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour.

and a "Class 1 E-Bike" is absolutely not the same as a "bicycle":

Bicycle. A pedal-driven, solely human-powered device, with two wheels attached to a frame, one behind the other.

Then in "7710 Travel Management – Travel Planning" they add a few more details. For instance, they are introducing a new classification "Trails Open to E-Bikes Only". I don't know of any such trails yet, but they're opening the option.

If you read 7710 you also won't be satisfied when it comes to answers. That's because actual trail designations and rule-making about their use is left to the managers of the parcels they're in. There is no nationwide standard that applies to all USFS (or BLM) land. A lot of folks want to try to go to some single document and say "a-ha, I can do it on USFS land" but that's just not how it works. With some regional nuances, it's generally safe to assume you CANNOT do something unless it is specifically LISTED.

That's why older trail and road makers so often list a bunch of things you can do, but not the things you can't. The newer ones I run into often list both DO and DON'T but many older signs just list DO. If it's not on there, it's a DON'T.

E-bikes are not allowed anywhere except on roads/trailed that allow MOTORIZED VEHICLES. It doesn't matter what Class they are. 1/2/3 - all are a "no". Period.

I get the whole "I'll take my ticket" argument but it doesn't hold water IMO. You can say that about anything. You can do 90 on the highway and cut people off left and right and just say "I can afford the ticket." It doesn't mean you should be proud to post about it online.

 

[ez_willie]

That is an Idaho state exception. You're dealing with different agencies here. The non-motorized rules from the USFS are established at the Federal level, by the USFS. Some USFS land is in Idaho. Idaho is saying "we're cool with it if they're cool with." (USFS is not cool with it but some landowner might be.)

It's like asking your dad if you can have a soda and he says "go ask your mother." He doesn't care, but your mother probably does. If you're at grandma's, and your dad says it's OK, and your grandma says it's OK, you're getting a soda. But at home, your mom might say no. Location matters. Make sense?

And no, you cannot "write yourself permission." Being public land doesn't make it YOUR land exclusively - it's mine, too, and every other citizen's. That's what "land owner or manager" means. The USFS is the manager of that land (assuming a USFS parcel). Idaho does not have the authority to set the rules for what happens there - the USFS does. They're just acknowledging that.

Appreciate the response. So are these exceptions Idaho has basically for private land? Which I’m assuming you can drive all over since it’s private without these exceptions. Can you give me an example of of somewhere I could pack meat/camp using this exception to the rule that I couldn’t already take a 4 wheeler/truck into that’s in some kind of public land?

 

[Customweld]

Can you give me an example of of somewhere I could pack meat/camp using this exception to the rule that I couldn’t already take a 4 wheeler/truck into that’s in some kind of public land?

I see what ya did there, Nice try....

 

[grainhog]

Hunting and other outdoor rec communities have to be self governing with respect to illegal motorized use. Enforcement is poor and isn't going to improve. If you see someone riding a class 1 ebike on a non-motorized trail, you have to stop them and "remind" them e-bikes aren't allowed. For those that egregiously or repeatedly break laws, I've heard tales of batteries or wheels disappearing from e-bikes stashed in non-motorized zones in September and October.

In Montana, hunting with the use of a motorized vehicle on a non-motorized trail or road is poaching. Take pics, get serial numbers, call 1800 TIPMONT, and report lat/long coordinates.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

I think they comprehend it just fine, they just want to do it anyway.

Yea I keep reading online forums over the last few years about people using them on said non motorized trials based off their own interpretation. Which basically means yea it’s illegal but I justify it because it has pedals.

I should put pedals on my ATV and call it pedal assisted, seriously genius.

If anybody wants to check things out "from the source" here's where to start:

Electric Bicycle Use | US Forest Service

Forest Service Statement on Electric Bicycle Use:

www.fs.usda.gov

Note that the document referenced here in "7700 Travel Management - Zero Code" is NOT a rule-making document. It provides DEFINITIONS. But you need to start there because when you read rules, those definitions are what they're talking about. It specifically defines e-bikes as follows:


and a "Class 1 E-Bike" is absolutely not the same as a "bicycle":

Then in "7710 Travel Management – Travel Planning" they add a few more details. For instance, they are introducing a new classification "Trails Open to E-Bikes Only". I don't know of any such trails yet, but they're opening the option.

If you read 7710 you also won't be satisfied when it comes to answers. That's because actual trail designations and rule-making about their use is left to the managers of the parcels they're in. There is no nationwide standard that applies to all USFS (or BLM) land. A lot of folks want to try to go to some single document and say "a-ha, I can do it on USFS land" but that's just not how it works. With some regional nuances, it's generally safe to assume you CANNOT do something unless it is specifically LISTED.

That's why older trail and road makers so often list a bunch of things you can do, but not the things you can't. The newer ones I run into often list both DO and DON'T but many older signs just list DO. If it's not on there, it's a DON'T.

E-bikes are not allowed anywhere except on roads/trailed that allow MOTORIZED VEHICLES. It doesn't matter what Class they are. 1/2/3 - all are a "no". Period.

I get the whole "I'll take my ticket" argument but it doesn't hold water IMO. You can say that about anything. You can do 90 on the highway and cut people off left and right and just say "I can afford the ticket." It doesn't mean you should be proud to post about it online.

Thank you!! Interesting, so class 1 is a no but OP says it’s a yes. @IdahoElk does your trail have some special sign that says class 1 is allowed on that non motorized trail? Or did a USFS employee give you the ok? I’ve never seen any sign regarding e-bikes in any state I hunt all over the west. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, I’m just curious.

 

[mtnbiker208]

I hope the usfs keeps class 1 ebikes illegal on non motorized trails. The only reason any one buys an ebike is for the motorized advantage.

I do own an e mountain bike, and 5 normal mountain bikes.

 

[IdahoElk]

Yea I keep reading online forums over the last few years about people using them on said non motorized trials based off their own interpretation. Which basically means yea it’s illegal but I justify it because it has pedals.

I should put pedals on my ATV and call it pedal assisted, seriously genius.



Thank you!! Interesting, so class 1 is a no but OP says it’s a yes. @IdahoElk does your trail have some special sign that says class 1 is allowed on that non motorized trail? Or did a USFS employee give you the ok? I’ve never seen any sign regarding e-bikes in any state I hunt all over the west. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist, I’m just curious.

There is one drainage that is popular for biking that has some trails marked class 1 e-bikes allowed on parts of the trail even though it’s a non motorized area? I have no idea why and I don’t care to find out as my area has plenty of single tracks that is motorized travel approved