Durable arrow build

[big44a4]

Something to add is a TI collar with a standard Easton aluminum HIT will save your shaft some but the HIT will eventually bend hurting accuracy.

 

[5MilesBack]

It depends on what your definition or expectations are for "durable". I shoot 70+lbs at 32.5"+ draw so "durability" is right up there at the top of my list with consistency and accuracy. I expect my arrows to survive hitting rocks, gravel, etc after passing through grouse, or any other game. I expect the same if I were to miss or shoot through a 3D target.

So given that.....I haven't found a regular diameter arrow that survives that every time. But I've been using the .204" ID arrows for about two decades with pretty good results. The smaller diameter arrows generally have thicker side walls for better durability. But I also prefer weaved carbon arrow shafts because they have proven to be the most durable for me.

I always use HIT inserts in my arrows, and have never used collars because from my experience I just haven't had a need to. I also prefer the streamlined looks and feel of an arrow without a collar.

So far the toughest arrows I've used are (all weaved carbon):

1. Trophy Ridge Crush 300's - discontinued for quite some time now, but by far the toughest arrows I've had.
2. Sirius Apollo's - tough arrows, but I never could get them to shoot as accurate as I'd like.
3. Victory RIP TKO's - what I currently use. Been using these for four years and haven't broken one yet.

 

[fatlander]

[mention]Mighty Mouse [/mention] summed it up pretty well. I’ve also had great luck over the years with axis (5mm) shafts with HIT brass inserts, sans collars.

If you’re going 4mm, the only thing durable is going to be a glue in or deep six IMO. Half outs just suck, period.

Axis strikes great balance of price and durability. The value to performance scale really starts sliding beyond that. 6.5 mm shafts with brass inserts are tough to beat for the price. You can build 3-4 dozen for the price of equally tough 4mm shafts.


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[N2TRKYS]

Gold Tip(GT) Hunters or if you want to spend more money, the GT Hunter XTs. I’ve been using them for over a decade and have seen no reason to change. I’ve killed a buck with the same arrow the last 3 seasons. All I do is clean the blood and dirt of it and change the blades on my broadheads.

 

[The grunt]

I guess if the standards cost half as much you could afford twice as many arrows, so if they are slightly less durable who cares. It seems like there is a bit of a tipping point between cost and durability between some of the options.. inevitably I will send one into something way to hard or lose it then BAM 30- 40 bucks down the drain.. I suck at shooting in the wind so any misses that I have I doubt can be attributed to wind drift. Anyways thanks for the responses good to hear folks experiences!

 

[Collin304]

Victory RIP TKO. HIT insert with collar. Depending on your FOC desires use steel or titanium for the insert and collar. I’ve yet to break one of these arrows. With that being said I’m going to try the Victory HLR’s this year.


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[The grunt]

Victory RIP TKO. HIT insert with collar. Depending on your FOC desires use steel or titanium for the insert and collar. I’ve yet to break one of these arrows. With that being said I’m going to try the Victory HLR’s this year.


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I'm curious why you are switching? A little bit lighter?

 

[Collin304]

I'm curious why you are switching? A little bit lighter?

Yes, primarily a whitetail hunter and I’ve never had pass through issues only deer ducking arrows occasionally so I’d like to try a lighter faster arrow and have a good TAC arrow as well and I feel like the hlr will fit the dual purpose pretty well. Hopefully my inkling is correct.


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[Beendare]

Increased Durability;

1. 6mm or 5mm at 9 GPI or more, more is better [its more carbon in the construction]
2. Go up one spine size
3. Mill the ends of the carbon so they are perfectly square/flat

 

[fatlander]

Yes, primarily a whitetail hunter and I’ve never had pass through issues only deer ducking arrows occasionally so I’d like to try a lighter faster arrow and have a good TAC arrow as well and I feel like the hlr will fit the dual purpose pretty well. Hopefully my inkling is correct.


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Without increasing draw weight or going to a faster bow, more often than not its going to mean building a less durable arrow. Lighter shafts just aren’t as durable as heavier shafts. That’s a broad generalization, but it’s rang true in the vast majority of my experiences over the years.

Whitetails are cagey, especially as the season goes on and ambient noise drops. The deer get pressured, leaves fall off the trees, and background noise is non existent.

Try to not shoot at deer with their head down. It’s much easier for them to get out of the way with their head down feeding than when their head is up. 25-40 seems to be the ranges whitetails can really get out of the way in a hurry. Inside of 25 I haven’t had many issues with deer ducking and beyond 40 they don’t hear the bow. That’s a whole different rabbit hole. I’m not saying you can’t or shouldn’t shoot whitetails at longer distances but it’s got its own host of challenges. I’ve killed north of 100 whitetails with the bow and I can count on one hand how many have been beyond 35 yards.


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[KBC]

I shoot axis 5mm with a 50 grain brass insert, Ironwill collar and 125 grain points. I shoot at the steel elk more than I probably should and hit steel more than I should too…
About 70% of the time I just need to put a new point on when I hit steel. The other 30% of the time, I break the odd arrow but most of the time I just need to sand the end of the carbon a bit and square it up.
74 lbs with a 30” DL. Arrows are about 535 grains going 270ish

 

[dtrkyman]

Back in the day I shot 13 consecutive deer with the same Beman 60/80 arrow, still ahve it somewhere.

Arrows with a front collar or outsert typically the shaft itself survives, the outserts bend, the old Bemans I could heat up the outsert and install a new one, newer arrows do not take heat nearly as good, I assume the older shafts had less adhesives or resins in them?

If you really want bullet proof an internal and external footer up front would do it!

 

[dkime]

Back in the day I shot 13 consecutive deer with the same Beman 60/80 arrow, still ahve it somewhere.

Arrows with a front collar or outsert typically the shaft itself survives, the outserts bend, the old Bemans I could heat up the outsert and install a new one, newer arrows do not take heat nearly as good, I assume the older shafts had less adhesives or resins in them?

If you really want bullet proof an internal and external footer up front would do it!

Most of those old shafts (and a few in current era) had a good amount of fiberglass in them which helped


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[nphunter]

Depends on why you want durable. To keep from buying more because the don’t break? If that’s the case you’re better off buying cheap or used arrows and just shooting.
If you’re building a durable arrow because you don’t want it to break while hitting an animal IMO that’s a waste of money. I built some rock solid RIP TKO’s, SS IW inserts, IW Collars and expensive heads. I think they were around $300 a dozen, maybe more, (I posted them on here a few years back). Anyway everyone of those that I killed a bull with that didn’t pass all the way through onto the ground broke. Some broke from the animal falling on it and some
Broke when they went though the ribs and the front leg came back and snapped them off.
I did hit a boulder with one and it broke the IW collar but saved the arrow, however it did bend the HIT somehow so it turned into a target arrow.
Now I just build arrows I want to shoot with heads I like and they fly well. Durability is pretty far down the list. Most every arrow I have ever used has broken when killing elk with the exception of a few clean passthroughs into soft dirt.

 

[westrnwild]

I've farted around with a ton of combos over the years. I bow hunt for elk primarily and mule deer. So my set up might be heavy if your a whitetail guy.

It's simple though and I've had great success with it. And it's gone into bricks and bones alike with the arrow holding together (maybe not able use it again). 4mm Axis with 55 get 4 mm Titanium half out. Through some vanes of your choice on there and let her rip! They fly good. Solid FOC if your into that and super strong. Mine weight out with 100gr point around 475grs or so with 300 spine.

I've used all sorts of crap from collars to FMJs, steel, aluminum and so forth. They all either failed, were too heavy or flew like crap...that 4mm with titanium half out (while expensive) is durable and as reliable and flys a true as I've found.

 

[Bump79]

Depends on why you want durable. To keep from buying more because the don’t break? If that’s the case you’re better off buying cheap or used arrows and just shooting.
If you’re building a durable arrow because you don’t want it to break while hitting an animal IMO that’s a waste of money. I built some rock solid RIP TKO’s, SS IW inserts, IW Collars and expensive heads. I think they were around $300 a dozen, maybe more, (I posted them on here a few years back). Anyway everyone of those that I killed a bull with that didn’t pass all the way through onto the ground broke. Some broke from the animal falling on it and some
Broke when they went though the ribs and the front leg came back and snapped them off.
I did hit a boulder with one and it broke the IW collar but saved the arrow, however it did bend the HIT somehow so it turned into a target arrow.
Now I just build arrows I want to shoot with heads I like and they fly well. Durability is pretty far down the list. Most every arrow I have ever used has broken when killing elk with the exception of a few clean passthroughs into soft dirt.

I agree with this mostly but I probably list durability up a little higher. I started building & dealing Whitewater Archery New Ground or Mesa - they are low cost AND best part is you can order with no components. So you're not paying extra for components that aren't great. Then I invest that in an Ethics HIT and VPA footer for durability. They run ~$175/dozen bareshaft that way which is pretty killer value. I hot melt the components in too so I can reuse them if I break a shaft. Which typically is from a rear impact shooting groups or something like you mentioned.

 

[Beendare]

FWIW, I talked to the Easton engineers at the ATA show decades ago and they said the reason for epoxying the inserts is it's critical for the strength and durability of the shaft to permanently bond the insert to the shaft in case of a hard impact.

The very expensive components has created a whole class of guys that think they can make a better mousetrap....when in reality all they did was weaken their arrows by using hotmelt.

 

[Bump79]

FWIW, I talked to the Easton engineers at the ATA show decades ago and they said the reason for epoxying the inserts is it's critical for the strength and durability of the shaft to permanently bond the insert to the shaft in case of a hard impact.

The very expensive components has created a whole class of guys that think they can make a better mousetrap....when in reality all they did was weaken their arrows by using hotmelt.

Good points. Personally, I think it's component dependent. I'll use hot melt on the Ethics 50 grain Aluminum as it has a ton of glue surface. It's got about double the length of a standard easton HIT. I generally don't use hot melt on about anything other component.



Top: Iron Will HIT, Easton HIT, IW 75 and Ethics 50 grain.


Personally, I'd like a 38 grain 7075 T6 HIT so I'd land right about 50 grains with a footer. Just me though.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

FWIW, I talked to the Easton engineers at the ATA show decades ago and they said the reason for epoxying the inserts is it's critical for the strength and durability of the shaft to permanently bond the insert to the shaft in case of a hard impact.

The very expensive components has created a whole class of guys that think they can make a better mousetrap....when in reality all they did was weaken their arrows by using hotmelt.

Fair point. I prefer hot melt, but I won’t pretend it’s stronger than properly applied epoxy.

That said, the only real downside I see to hot melt is greater chance of the insert pulling out when extracting the arrow from a target (which has happened to me a few times but is very rare IME). I can’t see a weaker adhesive really causing an issue when the arrow is impacting/passing through a target/animal. Impact forces try to push the insert deeper into the arrow, but the rear shoulder of the point/head bears against the front face of the shaft and resists the insert being driven backward even if the adhesive bond were to fail.

Hot melt gives you the flexibility to try something new or try again if you mess something up and is arguably easier to apply, but it’s weaker and more likely to pull out in a hard target. Epoxy is stronger but you only get one chance to get it right, and it’s not completely immune to failure (e.g., widely noted adhesion failures with Victory RIP shafts). To each his own.

 

[5MilesBack]

FWIW, I talked to the Easton engineers at the ATA show decades ago and they said the reason for epoxying the inserts is it's critical for the strength and durability of the shaft to permanently bond the insert to the shaft in case of a hard impact.

I've heard of people mushrooming the ends of their arrows with HIT's for years, but the only way that is possible is if the inserts move inside the shaft. I've only mushroomed the end of one arrow in 20 years, and that HIT did move. That was a GT Kinetic XT 200 that flew right under a big bull and hit a rock square with the BH. That bull was so big that I misjudged the distance by 11 yards. When I picked up my arrow it literally looked like the frame of an umbrella with carbon strips all falling towards the ground.