Dumb question, but I gotta ask it...

[Trial153]

So, with that said. What do you shoot?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In 400 spine I shoot 390acc prohunter with 75 grain Brass inserts.

In 350 spine I shoot BEA Rampages with brass Hits and VPA footers as well a 340 ACCs a with Brass inserts as well.

In 300 spine I like BEA Spartans with additional brass upfront and also Ramages with brass hits and footers.

Some other shafts I have and like are the .204 ID Victorys and Easton Hexx. In general I think .204 id shafts with Hits and footers are the best direction to go if you looking for a small diameter shaft.

 

[jmez]

I love my FMJ's. Been shooting them since they were introduced. I spent a year messing with different outsert systems when the 4mm version was introduced. Long enough to figure out micro diameter shafts + outserts are a solution looking for a problem.

I won't switch unless they quit making them. I bend a few, not very many. I break more than I bend. Any that I've broken would have broken a carbon arrow as well. I have no complaints.

 

[fiskeri1]

I've been using the FMJ Injexions for almost 5 years now. They fly great, as well as or better than anything else I've tried (which is a lot). I shoot a lot year 'round and have found them extremely durable, at least as good as carbon (Axis, Gold Tip Kinetic, Maxima Red, VAP etc, etc). I think I've bent 4 total plus one that came bent from the factory. I keep experimenting with other options but keep coming back to these. Maybe I need to shoot at more rocks to notice the bending problem?

I like the idea behind the Day Six option but as indicated above, my experience suggests that there's nothing to gain here.

 

[Hunthigh1]

I love my FMJ's. Been shooting them since they were introduced. I spent a year messing with different outsert systems when the 4mm version was introduced. Long enough to figure out micro diameter shafts + outserts are a solution looking for a problem.

I won't switch unless they quit making them. I bend a few, not very many. I break more than I bend. Any that I've broken would have broken a carbon arrow as well. I have no complaints.

Why do you think the 4mm’s suck with outserts? Is this because of the “broadhead wobble” and concentricity issues discussed earlier in the thread? I’m looking at the newish iron will sleeves for 4mm and they seem like the answer to all my problems/ concerns about 4mm FMJ’s...... sounds like many disagree. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[5MilesBack]

I may have excessive expectations. Stump shooting with a 66lb compound may just not be an option......

I shoot 75lbs with a 32 1/2" draw and I stump shoot all the time, along with shooting grouse and burying arrows into rocks, gravel, and dirt, and rarely have any arrow issues. However, these GT Kinetic XT 200's have been the least durable arrows I've shot in the last 10 years. I would go with a 5mm Axis and call it good. The Axis have been decent and my discontinued TR Crush 300's have been phenomenal as far as durability goes. The FMJ's were really bad in that area......develop wobbles that diminish accuracy very quickly.

 

[Beendare]

What I cannot understand is why someone has not developed a taper on the front end of the insert to ensure concentricity. It would be costly for a QC perspective but it can definitely be done

I think the reason is that there are manufacturing tolerances. To get the ID of the shaft and OD of the insert within .001"...would be difficult. Whereas, the med weight epoxy layer will adjust to any mnfr differences.

Pretty slick ^ really. Of course the key is borrowing from the arrows straightness like I mentioned in my last post.

I used to shoot for Beman back in the day. Those skinny Beman Hunters. The carbon 4mm shafts themselves were fantastic. The glue in points had a long tail and the lip of the tip fit over the outside of the shaft....that was great.

The fatal flaw, the outserts made getting your BH's straight for hunting a nightmare...and the weak spot to the whole system as thats where they would break....a total PITA. So the skinny arrow system was a total fail if you can't assemble a strong perfectly straight arrow.
_____

I like the 5mm size of arrows now as it gives you all of the advantages of internal components....and the good performance of the skinny shafts.

.....

....

 

[Hunthigh1]

So if a guy goes the 5MM axis route, is he just creating problems adding a sleeve? I really like the idea of those 25gr sleeves that iron will is offering. Seems like it would add tons of strength. Has anyone tried these ones? Am I just introducing that aforementioned wobble and making for tough to pull arrows?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dkime]

So if a guy goes the 5MM axis route, is he just creating problems adding a sleeve? I really like the idea of those 25gr sleeves that iron will is offering. Seems like it would add tons of strength. Has anyone tried these ones? Am I just introducing that aforementioned wobble and making for tough to pull arrows?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not at all, you’re strengthening the end of the shaft I would just encourage you to square up the shaft as best as possible prior to install. It sounds like a great way to add just a tiny bit more weight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brendan]

5mm Axis (Non-FMJ) is my vote. I've used the Brass HIT inserts and stump shot without a footer, and haven't damaged the front of an arrow yet. Had bad luck with VPA sleeves even squaring the ends of the arrow, but haven't tried the Iron Will. Don't know if I will because it bumps the arrow weight up more than I'd like and they will eventually get damaged if you use them in a bag target (which is what I have at my range)

 

[5MilesBack]

So the skinny arrow system was a total fail if you can't assemble a strong perfectly straight arrow.

And then KEEP a strong perfectly straight arrow. That's the biggest challenge even if you can start out that way. Admittedly I haven't tried any footers because I haven't seen a need to, but the fit and tolerances would be my first concern. If the arrow doesn't spin "perfectly true", I don't want it.

 

[Lawnboi]

I went down the 4mm hole and am now going back to the axis, with an iron will footer.

4mm is not worth it IMO. Outserts are a pain, deep six has severely limited options. After 2 years shooting micro shafts I’m going back to axis.

Fmjs are nice but they bend. Many times a poor shot ends up in a wrecked arrow where as the same axis would still be fine.

 

[Beendare]

So if a guy goes the 5MM axis route, is he just creating problems adding a sleeve? k

The outer sleeves do add strength at a critical point.....the downside is that it extends your arrow length [you don't want to be drawing those sleeves onto your rest] and some of the sleeves make it a pain to pull arrows from a Morrell bag type target.

If you are OK with those 2 issues, the sleeves only make your arrow stronger. I've shot a lot of Axis and never broke that many to bother with it....but I get why guys do it.

Its worth mentioning, Milling the ends of these Axis HIT system arrows is a critical step as they seat better against your BH's. I had close up pics of the arrow end on this site- but now gone- when just off the saw the ends aren't quite square and finished as they are after you put them on a jig or squaring device. Seeing the ends both ways- a dramatic difference. [I like 220/320 sandpaper on my jig]

I've found that milling step really helps with the strength of the arrow and less breaking- that good solid connection....so sleeve or not, its a good idea.

...

...

 

[jmez]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Why do you think the 4mm’s suck with outserts? Is this because of the “broadhead wobble” and concentricity issues discussed earlier in the thread? I’m looking at the newish iron will sleeves for 4mm and they seem like the answer to all my problems/ concerns about 4mm FMJ’s...... sounds like many disagree. ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never found an outsert that wouldn't bend. I shoot bag targets most of the time and I'd be lucky to get 10 days out of an outsert before having to replace. I did notice that the bags bent far more of them than a molded style target. I also noticed a difference between different brands of bag targets. A Morrell Outdoor Range bag will bend them in short order. The outserts are also light and I glued set screws in behind them. It was just a large PITA trying to build them.

I never did try a stainless outsert they may have worked better.

 

[bguitierez]

I prefer the durability of the axis shafts over the weight of the fmjs. Aluminum is aluminum no matter if you wrap it in carbon or not. It dents and bends as you would expect. That's why most people quit shooting aluminum shafts to begin with. The ACCs were slightly better to me, however I had some similar issues with them.

You can tell a difference in the carbon shafts when you start cutting them. Axis shafts are harder to cut than some other brands and in my opinion are a great choice for a skinny shaft.

Just my opinion from what I've seen.

I tend to agree with what you’re saying. The main reason I went to Spartans over FMJ was because of the aluminum issue. I started my bow hunting with axis arrows but as I matured into building my own arrows I couldn’t get my hands on straight axis arrows at a 300 spine. So last year did the Spartans. They were a pretty dam good arrow for how my set up ran. Don’t think I’ll go back to the FMJ arrows but I may get in the Axis arrows from the Nockon website. The selling point to me is they are from Easton and they are supposedly match arrows. That makes me happy. If I can run straight axis arrows with the components Dudley is offering I think I’ll run with those and not look back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bguitierez]

I shoot 75lbs with a 32 1/2" draw and I stump shoot all the time, along with shooting grouse and burying arrows into rocks, gravel, and dirt, and rarely have any arrow issues. However, these GT Kinetic XT 200's have been the least durable arrows I've shot in the last 10 years. I would go with a 5mm Axis and call it good. The Axis have been decent and my discontinued TR Crush 300's have been phenomenal as far as durability goes. The FMJ's were really bad in that area......develop wobbles that diminish accuracy very quickly.

Can I have your draw length!? Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lawnboi]

I tend to agree with what you’re saying. The main reason I went to Spartans over FMJ was because of the aluminum issue. I started my bow hunting with axis arrows but as I matured into building my own arrows I couldn’t get my hands on straight axis arrows at a 300 spine. So last year did the Spartans. They were a pretty dam good arrow for how my set up ran. Don’t think I’ll go back to the FMJ arrows but I may get in the Axis arrows from the Nockon website. The selling point to me is they are from Easton and they are supposedly match arrows. That makes me happy. If I can run straight axis arrows with the components Dudley is offering I think I’ll run with those and not look back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Easton makes a match grade axis. My plan this year is to run 300 match grade with 50g brass insert and iron will collar, along with a 100g broadhead. Hoping to be around 480 grains total

Most of the axis and injexions iv broken came from chipping or splintering at the tip. Hopefully the collar fixes that problem.

 

[bguitierez]

Easton makes a match grade axis. My plan this year is to run 300 match grade with 50g brass insert and iron will collar, along with a 100g broadhead. Hoping to be around 480 grains total

Most of the axis and injexions iv broken came from chipping or splintering at the tip. Hopefully the collar fixes that problem.

Yes the splintering at the tip was a problem for me too. That said I think a collar would definitely help that problem out. As I said back when I was running the Easton’s I didn’t know enough to even know what I was looking for. I’ll definitely be running a very very similar set up as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hunthigh1]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I never found an outsert that wouldn't bend. I shoot bag targets most of the time and I'd be lucky to get 10 days out of an outsert before having to replace. I did notice that the bags bent far more of them than a molded style target. I also noticed a difference between different brands of bag targets. A Morrell Outdoor Range bag will bend them in short order. The outserts are also light and I glued set screws in behind them. It was just a large PITA trying to build them.

I never did try a stainless outsert they may have worked better.[/QUOTE]


So the outserts you were trying were aluminum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jmez]

Yes, VAP penetrator 1 and 2, a system by Clean Shot archery, gold tip with the ballistic collar, and firenock.

Firenocks were the best but they still bent and we're a pain to install.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Brendan]

Easton makes a match grade axis. My plan this year is to run 300 match grade with 50g brass insert and iron will collar, along with a 100g broadhead. Hoping to be around 480 grains total

Most of the axis and injexions iv broken came from chipping or splintering at the tip. Hopefully the collar fixes that problem.

You'll probably be heavier with the collar unless you go lighter on wrap/vanes. I'm at 505 with a 300 Axis cut to 26.5", 50 grain brass, 125 grain head, 3.5" wrap and 3 AAE Max Stealth vanes.

If you don't want to use a full footer/collar - Easton has the Broadhead Adapter Rings (BAR). I have a small game head mounted on an Axis with one of those that I have been repeatedly stump shooting with and shooting grouse with since 2016. Same Arrow. Now, I don't think the BAR is coming off anymore, which does indicate the shaft mushroomed a little inside it locking it on.