down losing warmth

[orionsbrother]

I don't know if DWR down by itself adds that much to the price. the Kelty Ignite is $200 retail.

EE revelation 850DT is about a 25% up charge over the 800 when talking about the quilt that I'm considering.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I posted that exact info on another forum and got told I was biased against treated down.

Did you ask them how quick it comes off?

I am biased on the treated down process. Manufactures have been trying to improve on high quality down and wool for years. Only in the bag and garment shell has that been accomplished. The quality of down is better from 500 to 600 to 700 to 800 and then on to 900 fill weight over the years. That’s the geese not the manufactures. I just think the whole treated down thing is the buzz word and hype of the day. For me the verdict is still out. I will let the subject matter experts determine that; FF and WW. Their down bags and down garments have been to the coldest and highest places on earth for decades and decades.

Directly from FF website.
Our main philosophy that applies to design also applies to our materials. Treated down that reduces water saturation is currently a buzz topic, and we are investigating and testing the technology. Before jumping in, we have major questions, namely: does treatment negatively impact the longevity of the down? Does the treatment wear off with considerable use? How much water does it take to null any gain from treatment? We've been producing down gear in the rainy Pacific Northwest for 40+ years. We explore and utilize new technologies we find beneficial for you, so in the meantime, we will use the best fabrics on the market to help prevent water from even reaching the down insulation.

 

[Bushwhacker]

ok so i will premise this with i have zero experiance with down bags besides a very old (10+years) handmedown bag that i use in the summer. im currently looking to upgrade my general purpose bag which is an old kelty syn. my question is do down bags lose warmth over time because of being overcompressed or because they loose insulation over time? or is neither a problem with the new technology in bags today?

I have a Marmot 20d bag that is 23+ years old still going strong; could not afford a WM or FF bag at the time. I Have a Marmot puffy coat called a down sweater in its day that is 28 years old and I still wear it. I do have a WM -20 bag that I used on Winter Mountaineering trips here Colorado several years back; it is pushing the 17 year mark, just like new. I just can’t part with that bag. Down bags and garments will last for a lot of years. In my experience and what has worked for me in caring for my down products is this.
• If you don’t have to wash it. Don’t.
• If you don’t sleep in your base layer than get a liner.
• Air the bag out often with a shake or two even in camp. Let the sun hit it for a short period of time on inner and outer sides. Then get it in some sort of shade.
• Storage! Storage! Proper storage is very important. Store in a loose storage bag placed in a dark dry place. I air out my down bags after outings and before storage. I have never experienced a down bag retaining odor or losing efficiently using these methods.

 

[Aron Snyder]

I am biased on the treated down process. Manufactures have been trying to improve on high quality down and wool for years. Only in the bag and garment shell has that been accomplished. The quality of down is better from 500 to 600 to 700 to 800 and then on to 900 fill weight over the years. That’s the geese not the manufactures. I just think the whole treated down thing is the buzz word and hype of the day. For me the verdict is still out. I will let the subject matter experts determine that; FF and WW. Their down bags and down garments have been to the coldest and highest places on earth for decades and decades.

Directly from FF website.
Our main philosophy that applies to design also applies to our materials. Treated down that reduces water saturation is currently a buzz topic, and we are investigating and testing the technology. Before jumping in, we have major questions, namely: does treatment negatively impact the longevity of the down? Does the treatment wear off with considerable use? How much water does it take to null any gain from treatment? We've been producing down gear in the rainy Pacific Northwest for 40+ years. We explore and utilize new technologies we find beneficial for you, so in the meantime, we will use the best fabrics on the market to help prevent water from even reaching the down insulation.

Yep, I have the same feelings.

 

[orionsbrother]

Well, I guess there's some consolation. I'm looking for answers to the same questions as Feathered Friends.

What's your experience with treated down been Aron?

 

[Shrek]

Going off what I've learned so far I'm going to speculate some. From Patagonia I think I get that treating the down makes 800 fill behave as 1000 fill. It will last from 20 washes to 2 washes. So my take is that it's a really bad deal. I'm betting the 20 washes is with co2 nexus under ideal conditions and two was is what you will most likely get at home. Lets take the much ballyhooed new bag from the importer that many here love to hate , me included , Kuiu. You pay a premium for 850 waterproof down and after a little use and a couple of washings you have a very expensive 650 to 700 fill power bag with some fancy stretch fabric. The down may also be damaged by the treatment but thats a complete unknown. Lets think about stretch fabric and how a down bag insulates. If strech comes into play then it is compressing loft and degrading the performance of the down .
My bottom line is buy a top of the line WM or FF bag that is cut right to fit you and keep it dry and it will last you decades . I think it's a much better value than a gimmicky PT Barnum Chinese import bag hyped by a marketing company. If you really need moisture resistance then get a quality climashield bag or quilt by one of the great American made companies like Kifaru or enlightened equipment.

 

[Stid2677]

Has anyone ever "restuffed" or added new down to an old bag or parka? I have been thinking of overstuffing an older bag I have that has seen years of hard use.

Thoughts???

Steve

 

[todd kelly]

. It will last from 20 washes to 2 washes. So my take is that it's a really bad deal. I'm betting the 20 washes is with co2 nexus under ideal conditions and two was is what you will most likely get at home. Lets take the much ballyhooed new bag from the importer that many here love to hate , me included , Kuiu. You pay a premium for 850 waterproof down and after a little use and a couple of washings you have a very expensive 650 to 700 fill power bag

You have miss read a few facts listed earlier in the thread.

Patagonia statement refers to treated down being washed with normal soap or detergent. That is why they recommend it being washed with CO2 as they have found no ill effects to the treatment doing it this way.

The person I talked to at kuiu had no idea if the 850FP rating was done before or after the down was treated. So you are just guessing with your comment above. I guess you could ask Jason tomorrow during the sleeping bag reveal.

 

[realunlucky]

Stid I have an North face that is 15 years old that they repaired and over stuffed about 8 years ago. It did add some warmth

 

[Shrek]

Like I said , it's just speculation. The two wash thing would explain why a couple of guys say their superdown jackets don't feel as warm. If the dwr is failing already then their coats have dropped up to 20% fill power ? I'm just listening and thinking what would explain the performance loss. I'm sure not going to spend my money on it until it's proven. Seems to me there are better values to be had , but thats just my opinion and we all know about opinions.

 

[Tim in Wa.]

Has anyone ever "restuffed" or added new down to an old bag or parka? I have been thinking of overstuffing an older bag I have that has seen years of hard use.

Thoughts???

Steve

Steve
These guys ad down .They also do repairs and washing.They are great to deal with http://rainypass.com/contact-us/

 

[Stid2677]

Steve
These guys ad down .They also do repairs and washing.They are great to deal with http://rainypass.com/contact-us/

Thanks Guys