Down bag

[*zap*]

The antelope wins in all aspects imo. It feels warmer to me, far more comfortable with its loft, and still packs smaller, and is lighter.
Tho I haven’t put either of these through any hard paces yet, I was kinda disappointed in the slick bag. there’s no comfort to it, so relying on a sleeping mat for that. I personally can’t warm up to the center zip either, but lots of folks do like it. It didn’t seem to strike me as any better/nicer then the average $200 bag. Jmo

Appreciate the response.

 

[Wagon77]

Thanks for the responses. I have some research to do for sure!!

 

[Bkdc]

Treated down is not superior. The BEST sleeping bag makers in the world do not use any treatments on their down, and the three gold standard makers are 1) Western Mountaineering 2) Feathered Friends and 3) Valandre. The quality of down in these bags are all equivalent and about as good as it gets. The temperature ratings are conservative, the materials AND stitching/construction are top notch.

Best is to find one that fits your body type. I could swear by any of these makers as I’ve personally used them. Valandre has the most durable fabric (Asahi-Kasei 66 nylon) as well as the most meticulous stitch-work on their highest end bags but has very slim legs as the bags are geared for mountaineers. The shell is not as naturally water resistant as WM Microfiber and depends on DWR. The mummy cavity is 3D contoured. Anyone who sees the contoured construction should be impressed by the innovative design. They weigh a little more but the outer shell on a Valandre is so much more durable and doesn’t accumulate small punctures. The Shocking Blue is fantastic at 0 and below and is large to allow you to wear a down jacket within the bag to push the temperature rating. But slim legs. Western Mountaineering’s polyester MF (microfiber) is prone to snags but is ultra soft and breathable and again, naturally very water resistant although any water will eventually seep through if there is enough condensation pooling and dripping. Both of my MF bags have tiny holes sealed with Silicone sealer. I like WM because there is a width/size for all body types and it is easily available in the USA. The Gore Windstopper fabric is great and much more resistant to snag or puncture but obviously less breathable.

I own two Antelope MF’s, a Megalite (to be sold), a Valandre Bloody Mary, and a Valandre Shocking Blue as well as two Valandre Grasshoppers for family summer camping. I sold off two Puma GWS’s as I don’t venture into Uber cold. They’re all fantastic. I was a mountain climber in another life.

You can get warm down bags from many manufacturers, but I can say they are all inferior in construction or material quality to the three brands that I listed which you can think of as the Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica of mummy sleeping bags.

 

[Wagon77]

Treated down is not superior. The BEST sleeping bag makers in the world do not use any treatments on their down, and the three gold standard makers are 1) Western Mountaineering 2) Feathered Friends and 3) Valandre. The quality of down in these bags are all equivalent and about as good as it gets. The temperature ratings are conservative, the materials AND stitching/construction are top notch.

Best is to find one that fits your body type. I could swear by any of these makers as I’ve personally used them. Valandre has the most durable fabric (Asahi-Kasei 66 nylon) as well as the most meticulous stitch-work on their highest end bags but has very slim legs as the bags are geared for mountaineers. The shell is not as naturally water resistant as WM Microfiber and depends on DWR. The mummy cavity is 3D contoured. Anyone who sees the contoured construction should be impressed by the innovative design. They weigh a little more but the outer shell on a Valandre is so much more durable and doesn’t accumulate small punctures. The Shocking Blue is fantastic at 0 and below and is large to allow you to wear a down jacket within the bag to push the temperature rating. But slim legs. Western Mountaineering’s polyester MF (microfiber) is prone to snags but is ultra soft and breathable and again, naturally very water resistant although any water will eventually seep through if there is enough condensation pooling and dripping. Both of my MF bags have tiny holes sealed with Silicone sealer. I like WM because there is a width/size for all body types and it is easily available in the USA. The Gore Windstopper fabric is great and much more resistant to snag or puncture but obviously less breathable.

I own two Antelope MF’s, a Megalite (to be sold), a Valandre Bloody Mary, and a Valandre Shocking Blue as well as two Valandre Grasshoppers for family summer camping. I sold off two Puma GWS’s as I don’t venture into Uber cold. They’re all fantastic. I was a mountain climber in another life.

You can get warm down bags from many manufacturers, but I can say they are all inferior in construction or material quality to the three brands that I listed which you can think of as the Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica of mummy sleeping bags.

Awesome! Thanks for the helpful insight! I don’t know much about high end bags. I’ve always just pretty much froze my ass off and dealt with it! I did buy me a heavy quilted bag and canvas cutter this year, for my horse pack in trips! But a light down bag is a must!

 

[AKDoc]

I've owned a lot of different bags over the years...different brands, fills, temp ratings, etc.

That said, BY FAR the best constructed bag I have ever owned is my most recent (and likely my last) a Western Mountaineering down bag. I have the MicroFiber Badger 15deg bag, which is a perfect range for my needs and being a relatively warm sleeper. Beyond the excellence in construction, I like the roominess of this bag...not too big and not too small, the hood design is just right for me, and last but certainly not least for me...the zipper...absolutely snag-proof. (I've been briefly stuck in a mummy bag a couple times in intense settings...once when in the Marines in the war and another on a ski touring trip in CO at very high elevation...never again!).

 

[BullsDeep]

Ive been looking at the badger for backpack September elk hunts, coming in at 2.8 ounces it's heavier for its class in down bags. How well does this bag compress? The versalite is 8 ounces lighter and rated for 10 degrees. I know its different fabric but is the badger worth the extra weight?

 

[AKDoc]

Ive been looking at the badger for backpack September elk hunts, coming in at 2.8 ounces it's heavier for its class in down bags. How well does this bag compress? The versalite is 8 ounces lighter and rated for 10 degrees. I know its different fabric but is the badger worth the extra weight?

Good question...I don't have first hand comparisons of the two. Let's see what others with direct experience say...

Just looking at the specification chart on the WM website (which I'm sure we all check-out): The Versalite compresses a bit smaller (8x15; the Badger is 8x17). The Versalite is lighter by 6ozs. The price between the two is pretty much a wash. Versalite is rated a bit warmer. The MF of the Badger has impressive potential...time will tell for me in the predominately wet environment of my outdoor world. Most important for me, the Badger is a bit roomier at 65" 56" 39" (shoulder, hip, foot-box); the Versalite is 62" 53" 39".

We all have different needs for sure as active hunters. Bottom line for me and my needs, I welcome the extra room over the few extra ounces; the MF seems a better fit to my outdoor climate, and I tend to sleep warm...I chose the MF Badger.

 

[Bobcat]

I made the mistake of buying a WM versatile last year. I find the bag too hard to get out of in the am........because it’s so freaking comfortable and i’m sleeping like a baby. I’ve owned a lot of bags, both down and synthetic, But I never realized what loft is until I climbed in a WM bag.
My Mountain hardware bag is awesome for hunting because I wear all of my clothes at night and still freeze; so I’m wide awake, already dressed And Ready to get up and kill something in the morning.

 

[Nwaneal]

Thanks for the insight!

 

[Slayer1776]

Another vote for Western Mountaineering - especially if you need a wide girth like I do. (Be sure to check measurements, as some companies like Mountain Hardwear are notorious for skinny bags). I'm very happy with my WM and I'm planning to get another.

 

[Kbhillhunter]

Neither down or synthetic is warmer, the temp rating and dimensions determine how warm a bag is as long as the rating is not overinflated. I doubt Kifaru overinflates their temp ratings.

The other variable for warmth is how good the hood fits you and how knowledgeable you are at using the hood. If I use the hood correctly the bag will keep me as warm @ 10°-15° colder temps than if I do not use it or do not cinch it up correctly. The draft collar when used correctly keeps the moisture from your breath from going down into the bag and will keep some drafts out also.

Correct and honest temp rating.
Good hood that is used correctly.
Tighter fitting bag.
Good draft collar.
Heat a nalgene bottle of water and put it in bag before you get in.
Do some jumping jacks before you get in.
Eat some good fats before you go to bed.

^ this is what makes a bag warmer or colder not down or synthetic.

What would you consider to be correct hood usage and how are people screwing that up? I'm genuinely curious as that's not something that ever crossed my mind before.

 

[*zap*]

What would you consider to be correct hood usage and how are people screwing that up? I'm genuinely curious as that's not something that ever crossed my mind before.

If you want the max warmth you should have just a small opening for your warm breath to escape.
Watch the way Eric wakes from the night @ 4:20. Using a bag like that is where a longer length bag comes in handy.

 

[Kbhillhunter]

If you want the max warmth you should have just a small opening for your warm breath to escape.
Watch the way Eric wakes from the night @ 4:20. Using a bag like that is where a longer length bag comes in handy.

Thanks for sharing, makes sense. Definitely looks claustrophobic but I can see why that would make a big difference.

 

[*zap*]

It may take a while to get used to sleeping in a bag as far as claustrophobia is concerned. Most people do not do it enough to become truly comfortable. If you sleep the way he does in the video you will get the max warmth and if you do not sleep that way do not expect to get to the temp rating of your bag in real cold conditions.

 

[Nimpkish]

As mentioned by others, Western Mountaineering is top notch quality. I personally use a versalite and have taken it many degrees below its rating comfortably.

 

[Wagon77]

Ended up buying a marmot plasma 0 degree from a member on this board! Thanks everyone for the feedback!!

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

John Barklow from Sitka said un treated down had no place in hunting.

 

[Bkdc]

The benefits of hydrophobic down are far overstated. If you think you will be encountering sogginess, take a synthetic. Otherwise, hang our bag out to air/dry every day (if possible at a base camp) and take common sense care. Most moisture in a bag comes from your body through evaporation and condensation unless you’re braving a wet bivy. This is why I avoid waterproof bags that trap a layer of condensation on the inner surface of the fabric and wet the down on the inside.

If you’re going to bivy in the wet, get yourself a synthetic.

My down soap of choice (Revivex Gear Aid down wash) contains oils and lanolin to replenish the down with every wash. I don’t know how you’re supposed to wash treated down which has stripped the oils in place of a DWR coating.

What Is Hydrophobic Down & Why We Don’t Use It

A recent thread on UKClimbing.com’s forums wondered why we at Mountain Equipment don’t use hydrophobic down in our sleeping bags. It’s a worthy question and one we addressed. Here is our outlook on the use of hydrophobic down in both clothing and sleeping bags. WHAT IS HYDROPHOBIC DOWN...

www.mountain-equipment.com

 

[*zap*]

I own wiggys bags for wet conditions. Down bags (WM/Mountain Hdwr) for packing when I know I can keep them dry.

I really like my wiggy's bags and may get Ultimate Thule.

 

[kroskanyon]

I have a wiggys 0 degree bag and its a great bag for the money, Also have western mountaineering 5 degree bag. To me they are about the same warmth. Two very different bags for different trips. WM is expensive but worth the money IMO