Don’t need no rear bag - S2H University

[Marshfly]

Not sure about novelty...more being prepared if things aren't exactly right. I've seen people forget stuff too many times to rely on 1 specific piece of equipment to be there when it is needed. I've had clients forget/lose shooting sticks or bi-pods and fiddle F around trying to get steady when there was a tree, fence post, rock etc 2ft away.

Say a guy carries a light weight rear bag, buckle breaks or he forgets to reattach it after setting up for a shot opportunity that doesn't work out...never shot or practiced any other way...big buck steps out and he can't find his rear bag. Should he dig through his whole pack, walk back to the previous spot to try and find it or maybe a light bulb goes off and says "I know what I can use my binos/bino harness. Or my range finger...or medical kit."

None of this precludes carrying a lightweight bag, which is what the original post was implying. People that can't figure stuff out will ALWAYS fail under pressure.

The point wasn’t that rear bags shouldn’t be used. The point is that it really doesn’t make that much of a difference, and people shouldn’t be emotionally and mentally tied to a certain bag.

Also, lots of people think they can do lots of things, right up until they are asked to do it “right now” on demand. All of a sudden those “only a second or two” turns into 3 minutes to get a shot off.

I agree that there isn't much difference. But that shouldn't mean, "don't bring a bag."

There's no "think they can" here. We do this with a dedicated bag multiple times a year. It's just not that hard. And most shot opportunities are NOT gone in seconds. Some are, sure, but most are not. Regardless, anyone that practices with a bag as much as they should with all this other paraphernalia will not take an exorbitant amount of time to get a shot off.

Using what you have on hand to do the job if something is missing or breaks is pretty basic life/woodsmanship skills IMHO. If you lack that, good luck in the woods, as demonstrated by what WCB said above.



To play devils advocate...if time is of the essence, why are we wasting time taking off a bino harness? Learn to shoot with it on.

 

[Formidilosus]

None of this precludes carrying a lightweight bag, which is what the original post was implying. People that can't figure stuff out will ALWAYS fail under pressure.

I, and most I hunt and shoot with do not carry another bag for the rear- because it does absolutely nothing functional for us. Therefor regardless of how light it is, it is just another item to keep up and fuss with.

I agree that there isn't much difference. But that shouldn't mean, "don't bring a bag."

There's no "think they can" here. We do this with a dedicated bag multiple times a year. It's just not that hard. And most shot opportunities are NOT gone in seconds. Some are, sure, but most are not.

Ok. I didn’t say you can or can’t. I can say in nearing 100 students in S2H classes so far- not one has used the rear bag on day 1 like they just knew they could. Somehow the “I get my rear bag in 2 seconds” turns into a total cluster the moment there is any stress at all. Of course, there are dozens of other issues as well that contributes to a single digit vital zone hit rate on day 1 as well. But, they all assure us of how much they are positive that their methods work. Shrug.

To play devils advocate...if time is of the essence, why are we wasting time taking off a bino harness? Learn to shoot with it on.

Who said anything about taking it off- we don’t.

 

[Marshfly]

Who said anything about taking it off- we don’t.

How do you use the bino harness as a rear bag if you don't take it off? LOL.
The OP went to the S2H course and is now FIRMLY in the bino harness as rear bag camp. I guess he just made that up by himself.

This is ridiculous. ROFLMAO. Moving on from this mess...

 

[Dave_S]

Exactly. I just don't get this push to rush to take shots from prone positions. That's how mistakes happen and animals get wounded. If you can't get a quality shot off in the time you have available, oh well.

I don't see it as a rush to take shots. More of a potential method to increase efficiency and economy of motion, specifically so you DON'T need to rush.

 

[hereinaz]

The point wasn’t that rear bags shouldn’t be used. The point is that it really doesn’t make that much of a difference, and people shouldn’t be emotionally and mentally tied to a certain bag.

Also, lots of people think they can do lots of things, right up until they are asked to do it “right now” on demand. All of a sudden those “only a second or two” turns into 3 minutes to get a shot off.

I agree 100% with this.

Master the rifle first. Don’t lie to yourself. Prove it. No gear as a crutch, just execute the task.

That absolutely comes first.

My addition is a truth stacked on it:

A rifleman can add in gear carefully and thoughtfully. Of course, he will test and practice to master it as a second level skill—because gear never really replaces skill.

If you can’t do it without gear, then you really can’t do it.

It’s not persuasive to say to me that most or almost all of the people with gear fall apart when asked on demand. It’s clear they never completed step one to get to step two.

My point is a “Yes—And” response. Yes, rifleman should get competent with a pack and a rock. And, the skilled rifleman can thoughtfully add gear that improves total skill if he builds competency with practice and testing.

 

[Dave_S]

How do you use the bino harness as a rear bag if you don't take it off? LOL.
The OP went to the S2H course and is now FIRMLY in the bino harness as rear bag camp.

This is ridiculous. ROFLMAO. Moving on from this mess...

Doesn't understand method. Immediately decries it as ridiculous.

 

[Marshfly]

Doesn't understand method. Immediately decries it as ridiculous.

It's the "nobody takes off their harness" comment that's ridiculous when the OP specifically said he was going to use the harness AFTER what he learned I the course. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Formidilosus]

It's the "nobody takes off their harness" comment that's ridiculous when the OP specifically said he was going to use the harness AFTER what he learned I the course. You can't make this stuff up.

You’re right- you can’t make up that someone doesn’t understand what is being taught, shown, or done- but somehow believes he “knows”.

One more time in case it wasn’t clear: in general, the bino harness is not being taken off to use as a rear bag- it stays attached.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

How do you use the bino harness as a rear bag if you don't take it off? LOL.
The OP went to the S2H course and is now FIRMLY in the bino harness as rear bag camp. I guess he just made that up by himself.

This is ridiculous. ROFLMAO. Moving on from this mess...

Tell me you’ve never even actually tried it, and yet are here arguing against it, without telling me you’ve never even actually tried it.

Bino harness stays exactly where it is, and, yes, is used as the rear rest.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Doesn't understand method. Immediately decries it as ridiculous.

Exactly.

 

[Marshfly]

Tell me you’ve never even actually tried it, and yet are here arguing against it, without telling me you’ve never even actually tried it.

Bino harness stays exactly where it is, and, yes, is used as the rear rest.

You guys must wear your harness differently than I do. My harness is way behind the rifle when I am prone.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

You guys must wear your harness differently than I do. My harness is way behind the rifle when I am prone.

I’ll see if I can make a crappy video of it tomorrow morning when I’m out on the mountain. And I probably do it “differently” than other folks here too.

I rarely shoot prone anyway when actually hunting. I think it was 21 or 22 big game kills last year and if I remember right only 3 or maybe 4 of them were shot prone.

 

[Marshfly]

I’ll see if I can make a crappy video of it tomorrow morning when I’m out on the mountain. And I probably do it “differently” than other folks here too.

I rarely shoot prone anyway when actually hunting. I think it was 21 or 22 big game kills last year and if I remember right only 3 or maybe 4 of them were shot prone.

That would be awesome actually. I truly want to see what you guys are talking about. Because there is zero way I could leave my harness on and maneuver it underneath the butt of a rifle prone.

And I see the same. 8 animals with a rifle last year and zero could have been prone shots. I rarely get prone opportunities which is why we always have a tripod with us. Practicing with the tripod has made that the go to since it's so fast and stable anyway.

 

[yycyak]

I'll make a crappy video right now. Standby

 

[yycyak]

Well, crappy photos taken by a 4 year old is the best I can do right now.

To verbally describe it: Lay down, scootch the harness forward off your chest, and voila.

 

[Bluumoon]

That would be awesome actually. I truly want to see what you guys are talking about. Because there is zero way I could leave my harness on and maneuver it underneath the butt of a rifle prone.

And I see the same. 8 animals with a rifle last year and zero could have been prone shots. I rarely get prone opportunities which is why we always have a tripod with us. Practicing with the tripod has made that the go to since it's so fast and stable anyway.

Taking my time. 4/4 10” Target at 300

 

[T_Widdy]

That would be awesome actually. I truly want to see what you guys are talking about. Because there is zero way I could leave my harness on and maneuver it underneath the butt of a rifle prone.

And I see the same. 8 animals with a rifle last year and zero could have been prone shots. I rarely get prone opportunities which is why we always have a tripod with us. Practicing with the tripod has made that the go to since it's so fast and stable anyway.

If your prone you should be controlling the rear of the rifle with your off hand,

Like this, pinching the stock between thumb and pointer finger


With your other 3 fingers you grab the side, or accessories pouch or whatever you can move over for the desired height. All you are using the harness for is to fill the gap between those 3 fingers and the ground.

You lay it flat if it needs to be lower,

Stand your binos up for it to be higher

 

[Bluumoon]

Starting w pack on, rear bag on pack and rushing a little more. 3/4

This bag is new to me, I like it and may end up carrying it. Wouldn’t say it’s any more stable in a hurry than the Bino harness.

 

[oreortyx]

Please forgive the snarky humor interrupting this truly valuable info, but I just can't help myself: forget the vino harness. I bet all our fancy backcountry hunting trousers are going to start showing up on shelves with hammer loops now

Joking aside, thanks for sharing the intel.

 

[HuntHarder]

Over the years, I always pack an ultra lite rear bag if I plan on shooting longer range. The ones from LS wild are extremely lightweight and double as a pillow or butt pad. I've shot a few critters using the bino harness, but much prefer the versatility of an UL rear bag.