Doing Better - Concentricity Gauge?

[Lawnboi]

If you end up with the Lapua make sure to get a mandrel or you will need a cheater bar to seat it.

From what Iv gathered, and from my loading, legitimate single digit SD is very hard with 223. My 223 SD over 10-20 rounds usually ends up in the 16-20 range. Same process with 6.5 creed yields single digits.

 

[ericwh]

The mandrel is in the entire neck at once it finishes the stroke. The ball slides through the neck at varying speeds and isn't pressing the whole neck out at once, which is likely one cause for inconsistency of neck sizing with the ball expander.

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[ericwh]

From what Iv gathered, and from my loading, legitimate single digit SD is very hard with 223. My 223 SD over 10-20 rounds usually ends up in the 16-20 range. Same process with 6.5 creed yields single digits.

That is the same thing I'm looking at.

 

[Lawnboi]

That is the same thing I'm looking at.

I do wonder if a better scale might bring those numbers down. I’m currently using a chargemaster lite. A kernal or 2 over or under in a 24 grain charge is probably a bigger deal than a 42 grain charge. I’m only measuring to the nearest .1.

 

[N2TRKYS]

If you end up with the Lapua make sure to get a mandrel or you will need a cheater bar to seat it.

What do you mean by this?

 

[Lawnboi]

What do you mean by this?

Lapua virgin brass has a lot of neck tension if not expanded. And annealed it grips the bullet, at least my bullets extremely hard.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Lapua virgin brass has a lot of neck tension if not expanded. And annealed it grips the bullet, at least my bullets extremely hard.

Ok. I use a regular RCBS full length sizer die. I always work the expander ball or whatever they have through my virgin Lapua brass to work the dents out. I’ve noticed that most of them seem alot easier to do than other brands. I always worried that they were too loose, but never had any issues with them.

 

[Rich M]

My dad is a retired machinist and loves to play with that kind of stuff. I have one but refuse to use it.
Does it make a diff - sure. It definitely will if your bullets aren't seating properly.

I found that sorting the brass by weight didn't do anything for me.
Nor did weighing the powder 3 times.
Nor did rotating the case while seating the bullet.

It loads and shoots better an tighter for me if I set the powder measure and just blow & go.

 

[ericwh]

I do wonder if a better scale might bring those numbers down. I’m currently using a chargemaster lite. A kernal or 2 over or under in a 24 grain charge is probably a bigger deal than a 42 grain charge. I’m only measuring to the nearest .1.

I am throwing charges slightly under and then using a trickler with a beam scale. I just did 10 and double-checked them on the digital scale and I had 2 that weighed 26.0 instead of 26.1.

.1 is 0.38% of 26.1 If my velocity is 10 fps under average of 2900 that's .34%....

 

[ericwh]

FWIW I shot my 5 shot group with least consistent brass weights and 5 shot group with most consistent. Groups were about the same, slightly better with the "worse" brass. Es and sd was awful for both again, slightly better with the least consistent brass.

So, at least in my small sample of weight sorting pmc brass... it is not advantageous.

 

[ericwh]

Forster dies are lost with usps somewhere and I am building an annealer.

 

[T28w]

What do y’all mean by using the mandrel to expand the neck on Lapua brass. I was wanting to use some Redding type s does on Lapua brass when I get everything set up. From my understanding I am going to have to order a bushing after measruing the neck.? Is there anything else recommended?

 

[rayporter]

mine is on a shelf somewhere.
good dies will cure a ton of problems that you think you need to fix.

 

[ericwh]

What do y’all mean by using the mandrel to expand the neck on Lapua brass. I was wanting to use some Redding type s does on Lapua brass when I get everything set up. From my understanding I am going to have to order a bushing after measruing the neck.? Is there anything else recommended?

Many people recommend using an "expander mandrel" or an "expander" in a "mandrel die" as a better, straighter, method of running something through the inside of the neck.

These dies are available from Sinclair Intl., KM Shooting, and 21st Century Shooting (and maybe others).

IME with bushing dies you need to run something through the neck - it seems inevitable you will have a dented neck that the bushing will not make round.

 

[wind gypsy]

I use K&M mandrels and they seem to work well. I chose K&M because I already had the mandrel holding dies for my K&M neck turning setup so I can't say if they are better or worse than others but it is nice that you can spec the size of mandrel you want for setting neck tension.

I'm typically careful with brass during load development to not ding necks and if neck thickness is really consistent I may just use bushing dies without expanding. If flinging brass onto concrete or allowing it to bounce around at all its nice to run an expander through it for peace of mind. Or if the ejector spring is too damn strong and dings every neck on ejection like this new tikka 223...

 

[Lawnboi]

I use K&M mandrels and they seem to work well. I chose K&M because I already had the mandrel holding dies for my K&M neck turning setup so I can't say if they are better or worse than others but it is nice that you can spec the size of mandrel you want for setting neck tension.

I'm typically careful with brass during load development to not ding necks and if neck thickness is really consistent I may just use bushing dies without expanding. If flinging brass onto concrete or allowing it to bounce around at all its nice to run an expander through it for peace of mind. Or if the ejector spring is too damn strong and dings every neck on ejection like this new tikka 223...

Wait till you start flinging it on the ground. Then you have 2 dents to polish out.

 

[Wrench]

I'd personally run Wilson, then Lee collet......then bushing dies. Expanders risk scratches in the neck. Will it matter to a .3 shooter on a .5 rifle?.....probably not.

 

[ericwh]

Will it matter to a .3 shooter on a .5 rifle?.....probably not.

Well that's a relief. No worries on my end then!

 

[ericwh]

I think this load needs a seating depth test, and I'm also planning on switching powders in .223. But, for what it's worth:

 

[DCAN]

If you are going to use the expander ball, polish it until it glows. This will help with keeping necks "healthy". I switched to mandrels some time back. For me they just work better. At the risk of getting chewed out, consider ditching the bushing dies. Bushing dies, for me, always cause excessive runout in the case necks. Forster will custom hone a sizing die to your specs. Helps to not overwork the brass. Just a thought.