Does the 223/6mm for everything change when hunt cost $$$

[Wyo_hntr]

You should convince yourself to stop being afraid of recoil. That explains a lot though.

Childish.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Scenario: a Mountain Nyala is 1000 yards away and you've paid $500,000 to hunt it. This resulted in your wife leaving you and taking the kids with her. It's last light on your last day and you NEED to take the shot. But it's facing away quartering hard. The only shot you have is to put one through its back leg and hoping that bullet makes it into the vitals. WHAT DO YOU DO .223 MAN?

Man, people are really struggling with the sarcasm on this one

 

[ElPollo]

Childish.

And in complete denial. I’d pay for the ammo to see him do that backfire challenge if it was posted on YouTube.

 

[Gorp2007]

And in complete denial. I’d pay for the ammo to see him do that backfire challenge if it was posted on YouTube.

I’ll chip in towards ammo and fuel.

 

[ElPollo]

I’ll chip in towards ammo and fuel.

We’d probably find out he is really a 14 year old nerd who never leaves his mom’s basement and plays computer games all day when he’s not catfishing Rokslide.

 

[Gorp2007]

We’d probably find out he is really a 14 year old nerd who never leaves his mom’s basement and plays computer games all day when he’s not catfishing Rokslide.

Worst yet: he’s not even from Wyoming, he’s from Texas.

 

[yeti12]

You should convince yourself to stop being afraid of recoil. That explains a lot though.

You just have all the solutions don't you.

 

[prm]

you would be a fool not to take a 300 weatherby on this hunt

Well played!

 

[IDVortex]

One thing I've been told in my younger years in construction, especially when I first started my business was to always be willing to look into new technology, may not do it, but always have a open eye and conversation. Times change, technology change, research/data changes.

Our world either wants to just change without researching it first to decide what is tolerable, or logical, or they want to keep doing what they've been doing because that's how it's always been done. Both groups end up getting left in the end.

 

[RockAndSage]

Can you provide some of that "data" that you mention?

The reason that I ask is that the majority of case studies and books that I have read about how people make decisions show that emotions and experience are the two main contributing factors to why people make the decisions that they do. Experience is the overwhelming driver. In the event that they lack personal experience, they will tend to base their decisions off of the experiences of people that they trust, however emotion can cloud that. In the case that they have no experience and they have nobody in their circle who has experience, they will often use emotion to create their "logic" to justify the decision they make, regardless of the facts.
The other thing about experience is that people will make decisions based completely statistically insignificant sample sizes (such as one or two time), also regardless of the fact that many others have completely different results. You see that quite a bit in these types of discussions. "I used to use bullet X and killed a pile of Y with them, but one time, at band camp, I shot a Z with them and it didn't die right there so I am never using that bullet again!!!"

A very good book to read regarding how people make decisions is Sidetracked by Francesca Gino

Similar to what you're saying - I've seen a variant of "Survivor's Bias", where somebody does something very well the first or even second time they try something, and think they can do it again on-demand, without realizing their initial success had more than a little luck or other unrecognized factors involved. And they're just mystified they keep failing in later attempts.

There's another variant of bad decision-making I call False Benchmarking - I've seen it quite a bit with former high-speed guys, where they set their internal benchmark of what they're capable of based on what they were capable of at their past peak performance levels. Shooting, fighting, and physical fitness capabilities are where this sneaks up on them the worst - they spent months or even years at a certain level, and that just sets their internal benchmark of capability for the rest of their lives. Yet they don't realize just how far they've descended in capability until it's too late - making bad decisions off that false benchmark.

 

[RockAndSage]

18 to 19/20 with a 223 or equivalent

17 to 18/20 with a 6.5cm or equivalent

And it drops to 15/20 or so a 300mag.

Where would you say things might be with .22 CM, or .22 UM?

 

[prm]

Trivia question, since I’ve never bothered to look, what is the typical BC and velocity of the .223 with a 77 TMK?

 

[Marbles]

Trivia question, since I’ve never bothered to look, what is the typical BC and velocity of the .223 with a 77 TMK?

My hunting load in standard atmospherics and 10 mph wind, from a 16.5 inch barrel. I may back that load down by 80 fps to avoid possible pressure issues in higher temps. MV is 2778 fps.

 

[JohnJohnson]

My hunting load in standard atmospherics and 10 mph wind, from a 16.5 inch barrel. I may back that load down by 80 fps to avoid possible pressure issues in higher temps. MV is 2778 fps.

Ron Spomer would be openly weeping at that energy column. It's a shame that even at the muzzle it doesn't have enough energy to penetrate the skin of an elk according to a magazine article some guy read in 1980...

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Anyone who says they shoot a 7mm or 30 cal magnum as accurately and comfortably as they shoot a .223 is flat out full of crap. They either barely ever shoot their rifles or are just trying to look “tough” on the internet. Nobody in real life in real shooting situations makes these claims. Only internet wannabes.

 

[Formidilosus]

Where would you say things might be with .22 CM, or .22 UM?

For me, about the same as 223. For others that I see, 0-400’ish, maybe 450’ish yards the 223/77gr TMK is the killingest combo that exists. Past 450’ish to about 750’ish or so it’s a fast twist 22-250 or 22cm with 88gr ELD-M’s. The 22UM should recoil a bit more than a 243 or 6cm- it is not a general purpose cartridge.
Somewhere in the far end of that (600’ish), 6mm’s start shining. 6mm’s are probably what nearly everyone should be shooting as a “big” gun.

 

[Rob5589]

If you're already thinking that you'll need "more" gun because you may "need" to take a questionable shot, you should probably be rethinking whether or not to spend 100k on a hunt. Monetary output should not factor into ethics.

 

[z987k]

So, I have shot over 2000, 223 rounds since mid January. I have 29 round groups that are sub 1.25 inches at 100 yards, and from prone can consistently get sub 1.5 MOA 10 round groups.

With my 308 Tikka, I get 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards, I cannot keep the target in the scopes FOV, and practice with 50 to 100 rounds in a day sucks as my shoulder pocket gets sore.

I will take any shot out to 200 yards with the 223, and if conditions are good, 300 yards. I need more practice at long range before I go further on game, but I'm pretty consistent on steel at 400 yards.

I would not take a shot over 200 yards with the 308 in the field (that is with an AB Raptor 8 and 3 inch reflex), I've put several hundred rounds through it and do not feel it would be right by the animal.

I sold my 30-06 and own no cartridge that recoils harder than the 308. I would not even consider a 300PRC in a hunting weight rifle.

Local shop has a sub 5 pound 300PRC, it is a "sheep rifle, just shoot it 3 times to zero the scope, then you only have to fire it once more for the sheep" is what I was told. Sounds like a piss poor idea to me.

You're not staying in the scope with a suppressed 308? I can't stay on target with my -06 like with my 6.5cm, but I figured you could with a 308, suppressed.

 

[Turkeytider]

Trivia question, since I’ve never bothered to look, what is the typical BC and velocity of the .223 with a 77 TMK?

I don`t know the answer to your question, but if this and other threads I`m reading on the web are any indication, there`s a fairly substantial ( and growing ?) contingent that`s convicted in the belief that my trusty .223 is good for anything from field mice to rhinoceros ( well, maybe " rhinoceros " is something of an exaggeration.....but not by much according to some folks if I make a PERFECT shot! ).

 

[JCMCUBIC]

I've killed enough with the 77 tmk to have an appreciation for it. It's become my go to. I've shot it a lot over the last few years, both hunting and just shooting. I still have a few 75 amax's left but the 77 tmk has essentially taken over.

I'm certainly quicker, and more accurate...especially if time is factored in..., on second and third shots with the .223 to anything else I shoot. I rarely shoot anything over .223 for more than 5 shots back to back. I don't notice accuracy decline on larger than .223 calibers with 3 shots, but I often do with shots 4 and 5. With .223's, I'm happy to just keep swapping mags and it seems like the accuracy gets better (as long as my setup is comfortable/solid).

In either of the mentioned hunts, I would hope for 1 shot. Second to finish/insurance if needed. Possible third.

I've shot the 180 eldm a fair amount over the last year. It's very impressive at distance. It "helps" my wind calls.

I appreciate help with wind. All the help I can get. If I'm shooting 1, 2, or 3 shots, I'd prefer .796 (+/-) bc to .420. The difference is very easy for me to see in practice (at distance). There's no doubt, I'm better on spotting, getting back on target, and getting a second shot off with the .223. That said, I would probably take the time penalty for the wind help.

Assuming that it's likely to be distance with wind, the wind would "push" me to go 280AI or 7 PRC over the .223...not the $.