Does Dialing Take Too Long?

[wind gypsy]

Zero @100. Out west usually carry rifle dialed up 0.5 mil which is usually ends up being dead on a little over 200 yards. I know that 300 yards is typically about 1.0 mil in elevation so if I have a quick shot opportunity I know I can either hold another half mil or give it a quick 5 clicks. Beyond that I usually start dialing exact elevation.

Never lost an opportunity due to dialing. Getting a good range and steady rest, definitely. There is no consulting a chart. Elevation solution is spit out by rangefinder with the range. I can either use “MPH gun” wind brackets mentally or I’m probably too far to shoot within my abilities.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

You seem do do a lot of discussion about the benefits of mpbr while choosing to shoot the grendel as your main rig... You would think there are flatter shooting options out there.

cartridge choice is irrelevant, attempt to steer off into the ditch to baffle with bullshat, and or, the message by attacking the messenger, or by goading to do some sort of unrelated nonsense at the range against people when my own range bud has called me out afield while hunting to put money where mouth is and I do, you don't have to believe me, I don't care, I would get destroyed at some match for sure as I'd be showing up with my hunting rig haha, but I'll run with ya all day long with a tag in my pocket

it's this simple;

you zero your left to right down the middle? why? does that offer the best starting point to cover most situations?

you zero your up and down in the middle of a kill zone to offer the best starting point and cover the most situations, not cross over some method better suited to precision static target shooting over to dynamic live animal hunting....the kill zone is your best zero point, I know it's hard to get the prs out of the brain for this thing we call hunting but try for a second, it's logic and common sense to do this for task at hand for both kill zone size but also minimize lost chances trying to add steps inside a range more likely not have time to fack around

the past few years have been a prime example to show us what happens to majority opinion if you keep hammering something home over and over on repeat, you can make the irrational rational, you can make the sky green, seeing this exact phenomena with prs obsession lol, yet the distances the majority still do their killing is the same as before this whole scene and set up came around, just pointing out the obvious and maybe help break the spell a little so people can see the true end goal is hunting and where misapplication of gear/methods and playing past point of diminishing returns can negatively impact the task at hand, carry on, but you're armed with more now

didn't Lincoln ask a group how many legs does a dog have if you count the tail as a leg?

 

[Stinky Coyote]

That's my dad in the photo with his buck. Not sure what your "joke" about my height is getting at. Pretty sure height has nothing to do with my question. The question that you still haven't answered, by the way....

that's what the joke was, thought you and wasn't expecting that lol

My post was just an example of a specific scenario from this year. I didn't say mule deer, whitetails, elk, etc., were exactly the same. That said, elk and whitetails aren't hard to kill without spooking. Maybe our tactics are just different. I'll post another example below from a few years back.

I'm sure you have a house full of 190" deer.... shooting at spooked deer running away is a great way to judge them and kill mature bucks.......

how close was I on that, what's his gross? I have 2 over 200, 1 went #7 in Alberta for archery typical's (could still be top 10 but haven't checked as I completely lost that drive for inches/trophies awhile back), 2-190's (one typ one non-typ), a 180 and big frame shallow fork 175 velvet plus half dozen in the 160's, all with a bow, all p&y, I let my kid shoot my high draw priority muley rifle partner tag with a Grendel at 192 and he bang flopped that prone over the pack after dandy stalk and wait an hour to stand up, but we sure weren't even remotely considering having to dial but we had time, that same kids first deer was a 238 yard whitetail at sunset that was crossing and I barely got him to stop, we would not have that experience if we were zero'd at 100 instead of 200, we had no time to range, I had a hard time stopping him for the shot, I ranged the blind from the deer after to know, so there you go, a perfect example of why you zero with odds in your favour so you can let fly when you don't have time to fack around but just enough time to stop a deer for a shot, and that's my first kids first deer, massive moment for this family...so eff all y'all , zero was the last thing we thought about, you know you're covered at most of the reasonable ranges...hold fur, fill freezer, see your first get his first big game animal...case close, if I start actually recalling how many of our kills and could actually recall how many opps we had and apply the what ifs...there's gonna be a lot more reality missed opps than will be humbly posted here if people did the same

Here's one of those crazy, spooky whitetails. He wouldn't even stand up when I whistled at him, so I decided to just shoot him in the back of the neck at 393 yards. We crawled a long way to get into that position without him knowing.

nice, well played, well past mbpr so not entirely relatable to discussion lol, nice to see though, tell me the score of that muley and maybe I'll pm you some of my muley's so you know this isn't a game, I have zero interest in talking about what I've done, I do love hunting and these topics however to discuss, be nice if we just took each other at our words but I get the internet skepticism, the prs crowd is hungry and looking for blood

 

[Lawnboi]

Mpbr past about 250 is stupid because people calculate it with the idea that their rifle will hit point of aim all the time and don’t consider the cone of fire at that distance, being the rifles inherent accuracy or the shooters ability to preform in a scenario that dosnt allow time to hold or dial.

When I stopped doing that I started hitting things more consistently where I wanted.

 

[fwafwow]

yet the distances the majority still do their killing is the same as before this whole scene and set up came around,

except this is the LRH forum…

 

[Clark33]

Is the long range game popular in Canada? Or is it a pain in the a** to get the components? Legitimate question

 

[Wrongside]

Is the long range game popular in Canada? Or is it a pain in the a** to get the components? Legitimate question

Yes, and yes.

‘Practical’ precision shooting and long range shooting have to be the fastest growing segment of the shooting sports up here. At least until Prince Sparkle Socks and his minions realize how fun it is. Haha.

But, competent availability has been a very real issue up here, for at least the last couple of years. And prices have gone thru the roof. I think the NRL22 style stuff will get extremely popular, if component availability doesn’t improve.

 

[Seeknelk]

No, because what's the other option?
It's just the work you have to do to make predictable hits at long range.
If you didn't have time to so spin a dial, you didn't have time for the shot.
I definitely want to get the Revic BR4 rangefinder to give my my solutions to take that time out of the system though. But I have to work with what I have right now. So no. It doesn't take too long.

 

[Clark33]

Yes, and yes.

‘Practical’ precision shooting and long range shooting have to be the fastest growing segment of the shooting sports up here. At least until Prince Sparkle Socks and his minions realize how fun it is. Haha.

But, competent availability has been a very real issue up here, for at least the last couple of years. And prices have gone thru the roof. I think the NRL22 style stuff will get extremely popular, if component availability doesn’t improve.

Thank you for answering, and that sucks. I have been catching clips here and there on the issue. I feel for you and worry we aren’t too far behind.

 

[Reburn]

No.

I think I know where Alone Guy is.

Christmas morning coffee is everywhere!!!!!!!!!!
you win the internet today.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!

I thought you'd be taller. Kidding. Looks like you're aging just like me...like milk.

But yeah, mule deer, especially rutting bucks, are about as easy and forgiving as it gets. I've got a whole pile of them with a bow and understand them fluently, been photographing them since I was about 12 and understand them intimately. You act like you belong and don't care and you can dang near walk right into the herd, hard to explain but anyway. Whitetails don't walk away. Haven't noticed elk walk away much either. As soon as whitetails they pin you down the clock is ticking very fast, and I mean fast, usually you must spot them before you and just you getting over the pack or settled into sticks is all time you'll get, if they spot you first it's flags and goodbye immediately. They don't walk, you get a few seconds of them processing at best, think coyote, and you get the idea. A lot of whitetails are shot non-stationary, as often the only way to fill a tag.

Helluva deer, strong backs! 190? He'd fit right in with a bunch of mine.

You coulda walked him down another fifty and spudded him with an iron sighted 30-30. Joking, but I might be right lol.

Thank you for breaking some of that up into something that resembles properly formed sentances. What I read.

Insult. Saying Just kidding doesnt make it not an insult.

Insult to his hunting. Talk about you and how your hunting is harder.

Compliment but you need to turn it back to you by saying you have killed a bunch like that basically trying to degrade his.

Insult to his hunting ability again.

 

[Reburn]

I'll bring the camera

Ill fund your trip.

Mpbr past about 250 is stupid because people calculate it with the idea that their rifle will hit point of aim all the time and don’t consider the cone of fire at that distance, being the rifles inherent accuracy or the shooters ability to preform in a scenario that dosnt allow time to hold or dial.

When I stopped doing that I started hitting things more consistently where I wanted.

This is on the money. When I grasped my gun was actually 1.1 moa and that was actually very good.

And MPBR was factoring a single point of impact on best case scenario on trying to lay a cone of fire over a cone kill zone. It was the cone over a cone visual that made me stop and realize MPBR was dumb.

When you figure out MPBR based on worst case scenario for a bullet on the outside of the group then you start compounding some pretty heavy misses. Then factor wind and at 350 you could be quite a ways off the crosshairs.

 

[Reburn]

cartridge choice is irrelevant, attempt to steer off into the ditch to baffle with bullshat, and or, the message by attacking the messenger, or by goading to do some sort of unrelated nonsense at the range against people when my own range bud has called me out afield while hunting to put money where mouth is and I do, you don't have to believe me, I don't care, I would get destroyed at some match for sure as I'd be showing up with my hunting rig haha, but I'll run with ya all day long with a tag in my pocket

it's this simple;

you zero your left to right down the middle? why? does that offer the best starting point to cover most situations?

you zero your up and down in the middle of a kill zone to offer the best starting point and cover the most situations, not cross over some method better suited to precision static target shooting over to dynamic live animal hunting....the kill zone is your best zero point, I know it's hard to get the prs out of the brain for this thing we call hunting but try for a second, it's logic and common sense to do this for task at hand for both kill zone size but also minimize lost chances trying to add steps inside a range more likely not have time to fack around

the past few years have been a prime example to show us what happens to majority opinion if you keep hammering something home over and over on repeat, you can make the irrational rational, you can make the sky green, seeing this exact phenomena with prs obsession lol, yet the distances the majority still do their killing is the same as before this whole scene and set up came around, just pointing out the obvious and maybe help break the spell a little so people can see the true end goal is hunting and where misapplication of gear/methods and playing past point of diminishing returns can negatively impact the task at hand, carry on, but you're armed with more now

didn't Lincoln ask a group how many legs does a dog have if you count the tail as a leg?

You do love to speak about your grendel which is the slowest most anemic 6.5 avaliable. Im pretty sure my kids 6.5 nerf gun has a higher MV.

But you speak all the time of MPBR and the grendel is possibly the worst canidate ever. If you were shooting a 257 weatherby or a 28 nosler it would be a little easier to maybe take you seriously but 6.5 grendel. Sheesh.
And I have a 6.5 grendel and like it for its intended purpose which is having a 6.5 bullet in a AR15 frame. But honestly a 6.5 creed in a AR10 frame is better all the way around and had it existed when I built my grendel I wouldnt have.

Funny statement that is. I cant be beat in the field but would get destroyed at a match because my gun is a hunting gun.

Im pretty sure 5 members would show up to a match of your chosing with 8-11 lbs hunting rifles in regular stocks shooting the bullets that they hunt with to compete with you in field like settings to prove your talking out the side of your mouth on dialing vs holdover and mil vs moa for windholds. Ill be one of them that shows. Please let us know the date a place so I can book my flight.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Funny statement that is. I cant be beat in the field but would get destroyed at a match because my gun is a hunting gun.

Im pretty sure 5 members would show up to a match of your chosing with 8-11 lbs hunting rifles in regular stocks shooting the bullets that they hunt with to compete with you in field like settings to prove your talking out the side of your mouth on dialing vs holdover and mil vs moa for windholds. Ill be one of them that shows. Please let us know the date a place so I can book my flight.

Rusty Ulmer literally was the overall winner of the Leupold Relentless Rifleman NRL Hunter match with a FACTORY TIKKA.



Almost every single rifle at those matches is used in the field for hunting.

The point that @Stinky Coyote makes about not "needing" a pile of expensive gear for hunting is a good one. Taking that point further and saying some of the gear/advancements used in competition can't also make you a MORE effective killer is where our opinions differ.

I'm fortunate to get to use some really nice gear and some of it makes me more effective. I would still be very happy to hunt with a basic rifle and fixed 4x scope. My effective range would just be reduced and I would pass a lot of shots that become routine with the right gear.

I also think there are systems out there that are more complicated than necessary. But, I don't think a ballistic rangefinder and a scope that dials falls into that category.

 

[Reburn]

Randy Ulmer literally was the overall winner of the Leupold Relentless Rifleman NRL Hunter match with a FACTORY TIKKA.

View attachment 491904

Almost every single rifle at those matches is used in the field for hunting.

The point that @Stinky Coyote makes about not "needing" a pile of expensive gear for hunting is a good one. Taking that point further and saying some of the gear/advancements used in competition can't also make you a MORE effective killer is where our opinions differ.

I'm fortunate to get to use some really nice gear and some of it makes me more effective. I would still be very happy to hunt with a basic rifle and fixed 4x scope. My effective range would just be reduced and I would pass a lot of shots that become routine with the right gear.

I also think there are systems out there that are more complicated than necessary. But, I don't think a ballistic rangefinder and a scope that dials falls into that category.

Thats cool with randy ulmer and proves my point.

Better gear absouletly makes you a better killer. I didnt say more expensive I said better. Which I feel is the foundation of Rokslide - honest gear reviews. Does this product do what its supposed to.

Take 2 of the same average hunters and give one better gear he will be able to kill more effectivly. This is fact.

I killed antelope at extended ranges with my 257 weatherby and leupy holding over MOA scope. 300-500
I kill antelope easier and with more confidence and less misses with my 6.5 prc and nightforce mil tikka at the same distances.

A rangfinder and dialing scope used to be less common and more complicated. It wasnt common for hunters when I assembled my first 257 weatherby in 2004. Times changed. Some people adapt. Some dont.

 

[MaraviaDave]

Randy Ulmer literally was the overall winner of the Leupold Relentless Rifleman NRL Hunter match with a FACTORY TIKKA.

The overall winner was Rusty Ulmer ….. Randy’s brother.

Of course, this correction doesn’t change the point you were making. It’s only meant to clarify. Rusty is a hardcore rifle hunter. Randy has gained his reputation through archery.

 

[Justin Crossley]

The overall winner was Rusty Ulmer ….. Randy’s brother.

Of course, this correction doesn’t change the point you were making. It’s only meant to clarify. Rusty is a hardcore rifle hunter. Randy has gained his reputation through archery.

You're right! Thanks for the correction.

I edited my post.

 

[35WhelenAI]

My thought is gear doesn't make a more effective killer, gear allows more opportunities.

For example, an MPBR of 300 yds or a bit more has done well for me in 30 years of hunting and the opportunities to fill a tag. Whether pronghorn, deer or elk. Ranging a pronghorn at 377 yds allowed a .270 Win with a 150 Ballistic Tip @2820 fps to do its job with a hold on the back line. It gave opportunity by using technology with known ballistics. It didn't change things with respect to how I squeezed off the shot.

What I like about dialing as long as the technology/dials are without error at the time of the shot, is the opportunity it opens up for more shots. Technology does not make what I do on my part different.

 

[Billy Goat]

My thought is gear doesn't make a more effective killer, gear allows more opportunities.

For example, an MPBR of 300 yds or a bit more has done well for me in 30 years of hunting and the opportunities to fill a tag. Whether pronghorn, deer or elk. Ranging a pronghorn at 377 yds allowed a .270 Win with a 150 Ballistic Tip @2820 fps to do its job with a hold on the back line. It gave opportunity by using technology with known ballistics. It didn't change things with respect to how I squeezed off the shot.

What I like about dialing as long as the technology/dials are without error at the time of the shot, is the opportunity it opens up for more shots. Technology does not make what I do on my part different.

It makes what you do more effective.


What would you have done without a rangefinder with that pronghorn standing there?

Shot it for 400?
Or snuck up closer?

The fact that you can shoot at a distance with absolute confidence does make one more effective. Skill level per skill level, the one with better inputs will be more effective.


Basically more opportunities are more effective.

 

[BBob]

The overall winner was Rusty Ulmer ….. Randy’s brother.

Of course, this correction doesn’t change the point you were making. It’s only meant to clarify. Rusty is a hardcore rifle hunter. Randy has gained his reputation through archery.

Rusty is also a very accomplished archer. He may not be recognized much outside of here for that and overshadowed by his brother but he is a very good archer. I don’t run directly in his circle but friends do and have shot and hunted with him for decades.

 

[BRTreedogs]

My thought is gear doesn't make a more effective killer, gear allows more opportunities.

For example, an MPBR of 300 yds or a bit more has done well for me in 30 years of hunting and the opportunities to fill a tag. Whether pronghorn, deer or elk. Ranging a pronghorn at 377 yds allowed a .270 Win with a 150 Ballistic Tip @2820 fps to do its job with a hold on the back line. It gave opportunity by using technology with known ballistics. It didn't change things with respect to how I squeezed off the shot.

What I like about dialing as long as the technology/dials are without error at the time of the shot, is the opportunity it opens up for more shots. Technology does not make what I do on my part different.

Idk an hammer of a rifle def reduces my cone of fire.
I know you don't need a half moa rifle.
But when you have a "perfect" rifle at least im not doubling the error.
Also for me, fit is a huge deal. Its 1000% more effective for me to carry a heavier stock that has a dropped grip. It feels natural, vs to me a very straight comb feels alien.
I've significantly increased my over all rifle weight because of this.
My dad is turning over in his grave.