Does Dialing Take Too Long?

[Stinky Coyote]

I don't dial for short shots, but I have had times that dialing would have been a lost opportunity. The cases where you have enough time to raise the rifle, and that is about it. That comes about usually while walking/moving.

yes and paranoid flighty game like whitetails...muleys and sheep defence mechanisms a little different, they rely on sight and distance will often give you more time, stop for a shot after short distance etc.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

No. Not if you practice. My little Colorado buck was shot at 360 this year, uphill, seated, and rested off the top of my pack. To range, dial, sit down, and shoot took me about 30 seconds all in. It has become second nature and isn't a big deal to me.

That said, my first year hunting with a "dialing scope" it cost me a 500 yard shot on a bull because I took so long getting set up and steady and dialed. But I've put a ton of rounds down range since then and my confidence and ability to set up has quickened significantly.

So to answer the question, yes it has cost me a shot on an animal. Which opened my eyes to my shortcomings and I practice accordingly now. I'm not perfect, but now my immediate inclination when I see an animal beyond point-and-shoot distances is to range and dial. Just like anything, you get better with practice.

the shortcoming was only your proficiency level with the method chosen, either systems would have worked for you had you done the right amount of the right practice before the opener, good example though and perfect humility to see what you needed to do next

 

[justin davis]

ranging is mandatory for archery, do you use fixed pin or dialling sight? you eliminate one step with fixed pin as it's already hard enough bowhunting and guys get caught out all the time with dialling sights

My archery sight is a combo. Can be fixed pins or a movable pin. Fixed is faster forsure the dialer is more precise and less thought if having to gap shoot the pins

 

[nobody]

the shortcoming was only your proficiency level with the method chosen, either systems would have worked for you had you done the right amount of the right practice before the opener, good example though and perfect humility to see what you needed to do next

IDK if holdovers would've worked effectively in that specific instance with the amount of wind, unless I had a "Christmas Tree" style reticle with wind holds below the center crosshair, otherwise I would've been holding a random point in space in a stressful situation, so not ideal setup in general.

Looking back, even if I had the time I had no business taking the shot with the skill level I was at at the time. That wind was flat ripping down that drainage...

 

[Stinky Coyote]

My archery sight is a combo. Can be fixed pins or a movable pin. Fixed is faster forsure the dialer is more precise and less thought if having to gap shoot the pins

good redundancy, my riflescope can do both as well, I'll stay fixed on my bow sight though for hunting, would only play dial for the range stuff or if I really needed to drift one out there 80-100 for some really out of the ordinary reason, some of us figure out where the bottom of the sight bracket is on a fixed pin for said out of the ordinary reasons lol

 

[z987k]

No.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I also have a 100 yard zero. If I am shooting far enough to dial, I have always had time to dial.

Having a range finding binocular that gives you your elevation correction saves a bunch of time too.

it is a nice convenience to not have two different optics, and one that converts your yardage to dial up if you're not running a speed dial (almost makes it as good as a speed dial ) but you don't need either with a mpbr zero inside mpbr so nothing is coming up but the rifle

you double to triple the range required before you need to start playing sniper by using mpbr zero, that's 100% hunting prep, no brainer, you guys spend too much time on the range, see what I mean by how preparing and gearing for these unrelated things can work against you for hunting?

 

[svivian]

@Justin Crossley

You should just add a poll to the thread.... at this rate it's going to be a pain in the ass to weed through the extra commentary.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Going on the assumption that the OP was talking about using a reticle vs dialing. The short answer is "no" as it can be the second shortest component of the entire shot process (over simplified below and excludes wind calls).

1) Confirming the range (3-5 depending on weather and consistency) takes longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it.
2) Getting into the rifle and acquiring the target takes longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it. From what I have seen this is a hunter's biggest issue and time drain (myself included on more than one occasion). Having a partner makes life a lot easier and can be a major time saver.
3) Getting steady and/or comfortable can take longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it. From what I have seen this is a hunter's second biggest issue and time drain. <Depending on the terrain and where the animal is (angle), this can take awhile>
4) Waiting the animal to present a shot can take massively longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it. Can be a lot of back and forth between binoculars and rifle depending on what the animal is doing. <Have had animals bedded and had to wait almost an entire day to stand up and clear for a shot>
5) Taking the shot (re-confirm target, spotter ready, shooter ready, bang) can take longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it. But the bang part is fast (fastest part of entire shooting sequence).
6) Re-acquiring the animal while chambering a round takes longer than looking at what to dial (ex: cheat sheet) and dialing it. This is especially true if the animal moved a considerable distance and you have to re-range. Obviously low(er) recoil can save seconds on this part which is one reason why brakes, suppressors, lighter recoil firearms, etc are beneficial.

You get the point.

Very easy to practice this at home with a laser cartridge, "safe" weapon, a multi-species target (e.g. see below), and maybe a SO that loves to bust your bits. Have the SO call the target, confirm the target, have the SO throw out 3-5 bogus yardage readings (throw a curveball in once in awhile), lookup reticle/dial info, pull out your rifle, get into your rifle, acquire the target in your scope, use reticle or dial, get steady, "spotter ready/shooter ready/bang". Do it timed; depending on the app it can record your time and where you hit. Even more fun when the SO calls out the wrong direction that the target is facing. Pack everything up and do it all again. I have found this to be a very effective way to reduce the time to get a "good" shot off quickly.

 

[Wrongside]

I'm specifically asking the guys with 100 yard zeros.

100M zero.

I strongly prefer to dial ele, if the shot requires it. With time and practice, its just become part of my work flow, so doesn't really add time.

That said... We practice holding with our Mil reticles, but I've only held for one shot hunting. A bull elk a couple years ago. The herd knew we were there and were winding up for a rapid exit. It was a scramble getting into position. My hands were full with rifle & pack, so I couldnt dial while moving, like normal. Fortunately, my buddy was ranging for me, so it was just a matter of getting positioned steady, holding elevation, and squeezing. Its possible we would've come home empty handed, if I'd come out of the scope to dial. But, who knows...

 

[justinspicher]

I can’t say that it takes long enough for me to care, but I am just getting into using a scope more and learning more on dialing vs holding. I think holding is more difficult, but see the futility in the skill. However, I definitely prefer to dial, and with practice it will become a smoother, more efficient process.

 

[35WhelenAI]

At very long ranges I can see how dialing will take more time, precision and everything else is more critical as the range gets longer.

I zeroed at 100 yards this year. First year using a dial up scope (VX3HD 3.5-10). Up until this year I've used it MPBR for 29 seasons and it's worked great.

Dialing this year was very quick in my opinion. Critter shows up, I already have a good idea what the range is as I've ranged the field of fire I am covering when I set up in a spot.

Counted clicks as I'm steadying on the shooting sticks, safety off and good to go. But again, being off a bit yardage wise either way doesn't make a difference when considering the vital area of a deer or elk at the ranges I shoot. I could honestly stay with MPBR and be just fine but dial-up was something I wanted to give a try.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

100M zero.

I strongly prefer to dial ele, if the shot requires it. With time and practice, its just become part of my work flow, so doesn't really add time.

That said... We practice holding with our Mil reticles, but I've only held for one shot hunting. A bull elk a couple years ago. The herd knew we were there and were winding up for a rapid exit. It was a scramble getting into position. My hands were full with rifle & pack, so I couldnt dial while moving, like normal. Fortunately, my buddy was ranging for me, so it was just a matter of getting positioned steady, holding elevation, and squeezing. Its possible we would've come home empty handed, if I'd come out of the scope to dial. But, who knows...

so run this example back, no buddy giving solution, elk or whitetail at 150-275 yards (incredibly common range where you will have little time to find out), no time to range, you know it's inside your mpbr and your zero at 100? tag soup for you...full freezer for mpbr zero hunters, that situation is pretty much whitetail hunting full-time anywhere you're not allowed to bait, and probably a lot with elk too as they don't play around but you do get a much bigger kill zone with elk lol

sounds like your example is tag soup if you were solo, you stacked the odds against you and it would have caught you out, works fine on the steel though eh?

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I zeroed at 100 yards this year. First year using a dial up scope (VX3HD 3.5-10). Up until this year I've used it MPBR for 29 seasons and it's worked great.

Haha, love it, we all get hair brained ideas and try new things. Human nature, we tend to forget why we do things a certain way in the first place and get bored and decide we need a challenge in life and it's exciting to open up a can of worms every now and again. We usually get to meet Murphy very shortly after. It might not be the first season but you're gonna meet him and he's going to look at you, then down at your scope, then back at you again.

I could honestly stay with MPBR and be just fine but dial-up was something I wanted to give a try.

Well, like many who zero at 100 but still hunt at mpbr zero...maybe keep that in mind, Murphy would approve of that formula.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Lol, MPBR worked so well I quit using it...

 

[mtnwrunner]

All my hunting rigs are sighted in for MPBR, anything 300 and closer no dialing involved. Iv'e learned to do a little hold over / under inside the 300 mark. My experience beyond 300 is there is usually time for ranging and dialing ......

This ^^^^^^^^^.
I'm a center chest guy, 300 yards or under. You'll be in the kill radius somewhere. If it's farther than that, I dial and take the time to set up.

Randy

 

[Wrongside]

so run this example back, no buddy giving solution, elk or whitetail at 150-275 yards (incredibly common range where you will have little time to find out), no time to range, you know it's inside your mpbr and your zero at 100? tag soup for you...full freezer for mpbr zero hunters, that situation is pretty much whitetail hunting full-time anywhere you're not allowed to bait, and probably a lot with elk too as they don't play around but you do get a much bigger kill zone with elk lol

sounds like your example is tag soup if you were solo, you stacked the odds against you and it would have caught you out, works fine on the steel though eh?

Ah yes. The Stinky Coyote ‘what if’s’… I remember you from Alberta Outdoorsmen before you were banned, (Shoot any moose in the arse lately?) I usually can’t be bothered, but I’ll humor your trolling this time…

The scenario I outlined was well beyond MPBR, and wasn’t happening without a solid range. With or without a hunting partner.

I know my drops 800 and in. 150-250M? I’ll guesstimate range and hold accordingly. No rangefinder or MPBR required. Beyond 250-300M, I’m wanting a laser range.

 

[Antares]

I like how we're in the long range hunting forum, but we're getting a bunch of hypotheticals about jump shooting spooky whitetails at 150 yards...

No, dialing doesn't take to long for me.

 

[Overdrive]

It use to when we had rotary phones now it's simple.


Takes me longer to decide if I want to shoot the Buck or Bull than it does to turn a turret.

 

[Lawnboi]

Sometimes

Practicing both quickly shows you when you can get away with dialing, and when to use your reticle.