Do you really need to invert tuning for a left handed shooter?

[Jesse Jaymes]

I am BRAND NEW to tuning. Just bought a press. I've shot for years, but often complained of lack of support and techs when running into issues and tuning. I decided to take the plunge into a press when I brought home a 2021 PSE EVO EVL 34.

I am not impressed w this bow at all. Squeeks and creaks. And it's giving me fits trying to tune. I read the below thread. And realize there are soooo many variables in tuning and each individuals set up and system.

I just set up some paper last night. VERY unimpressed with my results. This PSE and the Evolve cam system have mini yokes this year. I've only spent one evening adding/subtracting twists. And I don't feel I am seeing much in correction on paper.

Googling a bit I've run across old posts and threads on AT. Many guys speak in the analogy of Airplane steering....which helps me little...as I've never flown one.

Does it really matter which hand the bow is shot from? That was a question posed, but not really answered.

I am a left handed shooter. Bow is 28" DL. Limbs not quite bottomed out, but it's an 80lb bow. Somewhere between 74-78 is a guess. I do NOT have a draw board, however my wife has taken video and pics of the cams at full draw and while I am drawing. Think my stops are hitting at the same time and equally (if they were NOT....how does one correct this? Adding twists to BOTH sides of the yokes? Top or bottom cam?....this isn't explained very well anywhere I've read)

My arrows are pretty short overall. I have two combos to try. Both Gold Tip Pro Hunter .001s I have some 340s and some 300s. Both with 100 grain brass up front with 100 FPs. 3 AAE Stealths out back. Nothing crazy. 340s should spec 467 grains per build calculator.

The 300s tear paper WAY more than the 340s.

These are what I call Right Tears??? Meaning point impacts then least 3 to 4 dots stringing out to the RIGHT....then the vanes and nock pass through the paper to the right of the tear.

I've ADDED twists to the right side of both the bottom and top cam yokes and removed the same amount from the left side yoke, both top and bottom.

If I see little reaction from adding/subtracting a few full twists.....does the tuning seem issue then become diagnosed as more egregious or other issues?

Prior to pressing the bow I goofed with bare shafts and the 340s. The bare shaft at 20 yards would impact over 20 inches LEFT of the fletched shaft. I did goof around moving the rest....I needed to move it a TON....like 1/4" or more off center shot to get them close to the same plane L/R. Isn't this super odd?

Does it matter if it's a Left Hand Shooter or Not in this example? Does the tear need addressed by adding twist toward the nock impact regardless of which hand the bow is shot with?

To the point my cables are visible out near my pins inside my "scope" housing.

My cable guard is adjustable. I've played with it. From the factory it was waaaay to far out in my opinion. I didn't need that much cable clearance. So I moved it. I understand this can also be used to "tune".

I realize this is probably the largest irritant on this forum. But it's also the most Black Magic for me attempting to take things to the next step. And being a Lefty shooter in a Right Man's world kinda sucks.

 

[Beendare]

Delete

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

The stiffer spined 300s tear MORE paper. So I am guessing they're OverSpined?

 

[Samdemarais]

Well I think you need to work on one thing at a time here. Watch the gold tip you tube tuning series. Set center shot at 13/16 and shoot through paper and correct horizontal tear first. If you have a left tear for a lefty, you can move rest 1/16 inch to right. If that doesn’t work, shim the cams.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Copy. I have been back to Center Shot for a while.

I am scared shitless to pull cams off a bow. I've had a press for all of one week. Is it really as simple as squishing a bow and pulling out one axle at a time and swapping the shim pack from one side to the other?

How do I know which way to shim for a right tear for a LH shooter?

That was part of my initial question.....if it's a major right tear...I don't think it matter if it's a right or left handed shooter....the arrow is launching with the point off to the left and flying sideways.....I am guessing the whole concept in this situation is to move the cam in the direction of the field point....to straighted the arrow take off??

So this would be to ADD shims to the right side and take thickness out of the shim pack on the left side.....which would move the entire cam to the LEFT??

 

[socoalt]

I went through this same situation with my buddy's bow (EVL 32) this past weekend. 80# 29". We ended up taking it apart 3 different times to figure out how many of the spacers to move on the axle to get center shot right. Finally had to make adjustments to the yokes after it was close.

1. Do not try to remove the axles while the bow is in the press. Remove all of the cables and the string without losing twists. Then remove the bow out of the press and take it to a table where you will have room to work.

2. Be prepared to take it down more than once and make sure to measure your ATA and brace height after putting it back together. You can adjust your ata by adding twists (shorten) or removing twists (lengthen)

I'll try to attach a video link that shows what I am talking about. Dude goes pretty far with swapping limbs but the takedown shows an easy way to take the bow apart. Good luck.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Just watched this prior to posting my question. I will probably wait until I have a more Tech Savvy buddy to aid me with the project. I'll need a legit draw board to get everything back to Spec if I choose to go this route.

I goofed on PSE for many years. Swore I'd never shoot one. Went back on my own word.

I am not at all impressed thus far.

 

[Billy Goat]

Centershot compound you tune the same for left or right handed.


Broadheads left, shim cams right, or move rest left.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

LH vs RH shooter doesn't matter in tuning except in relation to weak/stiff spine reaction of the arrow*. Conventional wisdom is nock left tear = arrow is too weak and nock right tear = arrow is too stiff for a RH shooter and vice versa for a LH shooter. However, I think the conventional tear vs. spine advice is a holdover from traditional bows shot with fingers and doesn't have much relevance to a modern compound with a "shoot through" riser and mechanical release. Charts/software would say 300 spine is borderline weak at 27-28" arrow length with 200 gr on the front and poundage in the mid-upper 70's, but I don't think arrow spine is your primary tuning issue. If you did want to test if/how much underspine might be affecting your tear, you could back off your limb bolts a few turns and see if the tear improves.

Below are some handy charts from Gold Tip (applicable to LH and RH shooters) that show possible bow adjustments for various paper tears.



I've heard/read that twisting yokes doesn't have as dramatic an effect on the current generation of PSE's as on previous models because the yokes attach inside rather than outside the limbs and thus have less ability to exert torque on the cams and adjust their lean. You may need to shim the cams to get your left-right tune close then make fine adjustments by twisting the yokes.

*One caveat to that statement is that some tuning resources refer to adjustments relative to the bow (e.g., move rest away from/toward the riser) instead of in absolute directions (e.g, move rest to the left/right), which can cause some confusion because "away from the riser" means "to the left" for a RH shooter and "to the right" for a LH shooter.

 

[Holocene]

Kudos to you for getting a press and showing the initiative to tune your own gear. This will be a rewarding and hair-pulling journey.

You really need a draw board if you are going to do any "tuning" of your bow. You will have to pull out cams to shim them. This is not the bows fault. Every shooter is different, so it's expected that you'll have to move cams around to get a perfect tear. Different companies provide different solutions for moving those cams.

To save a lot of time (and therefore money) I heartily recommend getting started with these three resources before you tune:

1. Jesse Broadwater's compound bow tuning session on Vimeo. It's $80 but you will learn a lot.
2. Tim Gillingham's 11-part tuning series (available on YouTube for free).
3. Bow Bible app on your phone. This will save your bacon when you need to remember whether to move a cam left/right, etc.

When tuning, be methodical, take notes in a journal, and pay attention to what moves achieve what results. This will speed the whole tuning process and help you get faster at it in the future. Have some patience, this could take a few days or weeks to get all settled.

+1 that you sound overspined... 80# is super strong, so you might need to get a 250ish spine arrow. Pay the $11 and get Archers Advantage or a similar software program that lets you build an arrow virtually and know whether you are stiff, optimum, or weak. The software will get you close.

 

[Holocene]

PS, you have a major tear, so assuming you are back to 13/16" centershot, you will definitely need to move those cams. If you are at 13/16" centershot, if a tear is any bigger than about 1/8" with a fletched arrow or 1/2" with a bareshaft at ~6 yards is too big to tune out with the rest, so I'll tune it out by shifting cams. The rest you rarely need to touch until walk-back tuning or broadhead tuning at a later stage. Get almost perfect with the cams first.

That said, other things that can cause unexplained tears that are "the bow's fault" are:

• Nock too tight (solution = make sure nock matches your serving size. Might require smaller serving or alternate nock. Some trial and error here)
• Stabilizer imbalance
• Hand torque
• Vane contact
• Low-quality arrows / bent insert or end of shaft

Just some other things to keep in mind as you fine-tune your new rig!

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Couple great posts above. Thank you for taking the time to write.

I have the evening to dick around with it and it seems there is not wind. I will tweak and see if I can find some real adjustment anywhere....even if it's the wrong way or negative

 

[Samdemarais]

Couple great posts above. Thank you for taking the time to write.

I have the evening to dick around with it and it seems there is not wind. I will tweak and see if I can find some real adjustment anywhere....even if it's the wrong way or negative

Tuning is super frustrating when you don’t know how to fix it. Just keep working on it, call some shops and get advice and you will get it figured out and once the cams are in position hopefully you really like the bow.

 

[Samdemarais]

I am BRAND NEW to tuning. Just bought a press. I've shot for years, but often complained of lack of support and techs when running into issues and tuning. I decided to take the plunge into a press when I brought home a 2021 PSE EVO EVL 34.

I am not impressed w this bow at all. Squeeks and creaks. And it's giving me fits trying to tune. I read the below thread. And realize there are soooo many variables in tuning and each individuals set up and system.

I just set up some paper last night. VERY unimpressed with my results. This PSE and the Evolve cam system have mini yokes this year. I've only spent one evening adding/subtracting twists. And I don't feel I am seeing much in correction on paper.

Googling a bit I've run across old posts and threads on AT. Many guys speak in the analogy of Airplane steering....which helps me little...as I've never flown one.

Does it really matter which hand the bow is shot from? That was a question posed, but not really answered.

I am a left handed shooter. Bow is 28" DL. Limbs not quite bottomed out, but it's an 80lb bow. Somewhere between 74-78 is a guess. I do NOT have a draw board, however my wife has taken video and pics of the cams at full draw and while I am drawing. Think my stops are hitting at the same time and equally (if they were NOT....how does one correct this? Adding twists to BOTH sides of the yokes? Top or bottom cam?....this isn't explained very well anywhere I've read)

My arrows are pretty short overall. I have two combos to try. Both Gold Tip Pro Hunter .001s I have some 340s and some 300s. Both with 100 grain brass up front with 100 FPs. 3 AAE Stealths out back. Nothing crazy. 340s should spec 467 grains per build calculator.

The 300s tear paper WAY more than the 340s.

These are what I call Right Tears??? Meaning point impacts then least 3 to 4 dots stringing out to the RIGHT....then the vanes and nock pass through the paper to the right of the tear.

I've ADDED twists to the right side of both the bottom and top cam yokes and removed the same amount from the left side yoke, both top and bottom.

If I see little reaction from adding/subtracting a few full twists.....does the tuning seem issue then become diagnosed as more egregious or other issues?

Prior to pressing the bow I goofed with bare shafts and the 340s. The bare shaft at 20 yards would impact over 20 inches LEFT of the fletched shaft. I did goof around moving the rest....I needed to move it a TON....like 1/4" or more off center shot to get them close to the same plane L/R. Isn't this super odd?

Does it matter if it's a Left Hand Shooter or Not in this example? Does the tear need addressed by adding twist toward the nock impact regardless of which hand the bow is shot with?

To the point my cables are visible out near my pins inside my "scope" housing.

My cable guard is adjustable. I've played with it. From the factory it was waaaay to far out in my opinion. I didn't need that much cable clearance. So I moved it. I understand this can also be used to "tune".

I realize this is probably the largest irritant on this forum. But it's also the most Black Magic for me attempting to take things to the next step. And being a Lefty shooter in a Right Man's world kinda sucks.

You tube inside out precision pse evl34 build, he goes over the whole thing and tuning

 

[Holocene]

You tube inside out precision pse evl34 build, he goes over the whole thing and tuning

Good idea and I should have put Kellen's channel (Inside Out Precision on Youtube) as a recommended resource. He works out of a shop in Eugene, OR, called The Bow Rack and the owner and staff there are so good that I make a trip down there often when I can to see them, buy some stuff, and get bow work done.

Kellen was the first bow technician to EVER help me tune a Mathews bow with top hats. We spent two sessions together paper tuning and walk-back tuning, and that day really change my archery life looking back. He's a fantastic dude for putting a lot of knowledge out there in the world for us to use, absorb, and benefit from.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I've watched many of his videos. Watched the EVO tune. It's unfortunate that like Dog Training videos....there are so many issues and variables NOT covered or seen. My Issues are not at all addressed in anything I've watched.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Last night’s results are as follows….pics should show my initial paper tune. Took me about 11 rest adjustments to get a bullet hole. These are just REST adjustments. I took out vertical with D Loop/nock height adjustment prior. Once I got the mythical Bullet Hole….I screwed on a broadhead and shot at 20. Mind you my sight in was just a handful of shots and I’m still a touch left impact.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

This should show my broadhead at 20 yards…followed by pulling the arrow and attaching field point to same arrow

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

So this should give me a warm and fuzzy. I should go home after work and shoot the broadheads out to 40 and 50 and hope they fly true and match field points.
The ISSUE IS…..I needed to move my rest at least 1/4” off center shot toward the riser to accomplish this. This can’t be “right” or correct. The bus cables are almost in lone with my sight pins when at full draw and looking thru my housing for a shot. The broadhead are inside the shelf and almost touching the riser.
The advice I’m an getting is F That paper tune BS….I can’t run this bow set up like that. I need to Line Tune and Walk Back Tune. As set up…the expectation is that I will not be anywhere close at 50 yards tonight. And that the arrows are going to “walk” way off Right or Left as my rest is sooooo far out of spec on Center shot. My advice I’m getting by a very great shooter and former bow mechanic is Line Tune and be done. Nobody cares what paper looks like. The cans look straight. The spine on the set up looks good….only broadhead and impacts hitting in line with how the sight aligns matters at this point.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Center Shot…with this rest looks like…of the two indicator has lines on the base…the left indicator should be over top of the left most hash line on the left edge of the moveable portion of the rest. That’s about Center. My rest is about a full 1/4” off center shot. To the inside of the riser.
I don’t like it…AT ALL. But it seems to shoot well right there.
Thoughts ?