DIY Alaskan Moose Questions

[Archerypro22]

Good Afternoon All!

I am an experienced hunter and more than familiar with the outdoors in general. However, I am as green as they come when pertaining to planning a DIY Moose Hunt in Alaska. This, like many hunters, is a bucket list hunt for me and I was hoping someone with experience in this field could help point me in a good starting direction. I understand most good transporters/hunt planners are booked out several years. Just for starters, based off of your experiences, what are some of the better units, DIY hunt planners, Transporters and things of the nature to consider when beginning my search? Would love to hear the good and bad (honest opinions based off experience preferred.) I will be chasing moose with a bow and would prefer a float trip with tall vantage point access for glassing as opposed to the flatter, spot and stalk boggy type of terrain. 60” Club? PB Adventures? Renfros? Wrights Air Service? Thanks a lot in advance for any input you’d provide or help with!

 

[Mykolaivka887]

There's some really good 2023 DIY moose hunts available with reputable transporters, at reasonable prices. Can't help you with a float hunt, though. All the places we fly into are spot-and-stalk type terrain. Good bulls, though.

 

[KHNC]

Probably should just go fully outfitted the first time, then plan to go back and hunt the same area with the knowledge you took from the outfitter.

 

[cgasner1]

Probably should just go fully outfitted the first time, then plan to go back and hunt the same area with the knowledge you took from the outfitter.

Pretty sound logic for learning to elk hunt. After doing a moose hunt it is nothing like elk I’d just find someone willing to take you somewhere moose live and start watching videos on how to cow call


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[mobilefamily]

Read every post on this forum. Buy and read all the books on the subject, particularly Larry Bartlett's "Float Draggin' Alaska." Then find a partner (the hardest part) and go do it!

My opinion: if you go guided once you'll never do it DIY. Which may be fine. Lots of people do lots of guided hunts and are super happy with that.

I started from the same place and after doing lots of research decided that a float hunt, while aesthetically pleasing, was going to be too much time working and not enough time hunting and have too big a chance of running into other hunters. Lots of non-float trips later I still feel the same way. And I'm a huge water guy that has three boats, has lived on or near the water my whole life and spend over 400 hours a year fishing.

For a first DIY I recommend one of the larger outfits. They have time and experience answering your questions and getting you ready, plus logistical support. Once you do one and figure out the quirks, a world of smaller operations becomes realistic for you. My take is that the good small transporters are terrible capitalists. They won't go out of their way just to take your money. By this I mean they're not going to do something super special or be able to provide a ton of support before or after the hunt. Again, this is my experience and yours may vary.

 

[Chirogrow]

Ive only done 2 DIY drop camp hunts and used hunt planners for both and had 2 very different experiences. I used troy sessions with 60" club the first time and it was amazing and he was insanely helpful getting my friend and I ready for the hunt. Just like you I had really only done elk hunting before and like was mentioned I feel like moose is very different. In my opinion as long as you know how to camp and are prepared with gear you can do a drop camp hunt. It's a lot of calling and sitting. I watched "love thunder and bull" and used his methods and had some bulls come in and had a great time. I have never done a float hunt, I know troy offers one but on here larry is the authority figure on those and has an amazing reputation.

 

[VernAK]

This is very preliminary but:

Much of Eastern Alaska is suffering the results of a bad winter and an abundance of predators. There are wolf and grizzly stories in every coffee shop hunting discussion in this area. Our group has kept records of moose sightings for 20 years and this year was 40% of norm. This will not self-correct any time soon.

I would focus my efforts to western Alaska and guys like Doc that have hunted there for decades.

 

[william schmaltz]

And Western AK is turning into an absolute overbooked and overcrowded circus. Hopefully the refuge steps up and does something soon, because there isn't much of a wilderness experience out there the way things are going now. And it seems like bookings are rapidly increasing.

 

[Robinhood21]

And Western AK is turning into an absolute overbooked and overcrowded circus. Hopefully the refuge steps up and does something soon, because there isn't much of a wilderness experience out there the way things are going now. And it seems like bookings are rapidly increasing.

I second this... We saw a huge influx of people this year compared to just 2 years ago. Wilderness experience it was not for us this year.

 

[Chirogrow]

I second this... We saw a huge influx of people this year compared to just 2 years ago. Wilderness experience it was not for us this year.

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? I'm booked with renfros in 3 years so i'd love to know what you experienced. When I booked the trip last year they said they aren't looking to get more planes so the number of hunters is kind of "capped". I am aware that renfros is very busy and there isn't much of a personal vibe like most outfits are run but as long as i get into and out of the bush and don't have people within sight or ear shot i'm ok with it. Ive done two moose hunts out east and loved how far away from anything we were but this will be my first time out west.

 

[Robinhood21]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? I'm booked with renfros in 3 years so i'd love to know what you experienced. When I booked the trip last year they said they aren't looking to get more planes so the number of hunters is kind of "capped". I am aware that renfros is very busy and there isn't much of a personal vibe like most outfits are run but as long as i get into and out of the bush and don't have people within sight or ear shot i'm ok with it. Ive done two moose hunts out east and loved how far away from anything we were but this will be my first time out west.

I was not with Renfros so I can't elaborate there but all I'm going to say is, we were not "far away from anything" or others... Fortunately we still went 2 for 2.

 

[AKDoc]

I will agree with others that we see a number of other hunters coming in and out at the Bethel airport. There are also other hunters in the hangar sorting through their gear as we are sorting through ours.

That said, I do not agree that once we are dropped in the field and wave good-bye to our pilot as he flies away, that it is anything other than a remote wilderness experience...it is. In the past nine years with Renfro I have NEVER seen nor heard another hunter once I am in the field. There have been a few occasions that I did hear a distant gun shot or two, but that's it. We do occasionally hear and see aircraft flying, but it is not continuous, e.g., there are Caravan flights to/from the villages in the areas, a Beaver on floats transporting other hunters somewhere else, etc. You get pretty good at determining different sounds of different aircraft, and the daily time schedule of the commuter aircraft flying high above you, etc. In fact, every year there are a few that found the setting too remote for their comfort. It is far more of a remote wilderness hunt than any of my other moose hunts or even sheep hunts in the Talkeetna's.

It's ok that others see it differently than me, or maybe have had different experiences than I have had. No worries.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Alaska is crowded everywhere. It's crazy how many people live up here nowadays and everybody has a boat, plane, snowmachines, quads, you name it. It's frikking crazy crowded up here nowadays.

 

[bmrfish]

That outfitter bought another Beaver about 2 months ago......

My thoughts on the matter are admittedly biased so I will stick to things I know to be true or told to be true based on boots on the ground observations; several hours flying around the unit; and from talking to dozens of moose hunters every year in the airport, at the lodge, and through messages on social media sites like this. So I have a pretty extensive feel for what's going on in that area. None of this is speculation, it's all first hand accounts (to the moderator folks, message me if you believe otherwise instead of locking and I'll gladly edit). I am simply a hunter looking to do wilderness trips in Alaska and I would like to keep my trips safe and have a reasonable distance from other hunters effecting my hunt, I do not have any stake in either company's success. In addition, I don't want to see someone book a hunt that costs them $15K and not get what they're expecting. Something like that would literally shatter me. The refuge law is that there must be a drop off (camp) separation of 1.5 miles. That's an important fact of the matter. And the refuge approves all spots and does not designate spots to outfitters. Each party has multiple of the same locations approved for use. So no one is breaking the law, it all comes down to personally-defined ethics at this point. When one party accidently breaks that rule, they each have the agreed courtesy of contacting the other to move their group before contacting the Troopers.

I've only hunted out of Bethel since 2018. I've only used Papa Bear out of Bethel. At that time I thought it was crowded. I had another group dropped near me by Renfro on day three and they walked within 400 yards of my camp. I was tagged out so I fired a shot into the bank behind me so they would see my camp and so I wouldn't get shot at later. That year PB took 22 groups (the same as the previous 15 years or so) and Renfro was taking around 60. As long as refuge and state laws are followed, they can each take as many hunters as they choose. Again, I emphasize that no laws are being broken. This year it was stated that Renfro was taking about 120 groups. PB once again decided to stay around 20-25 (23). The final number based on cancellations and their commitment to catering to last minute local clients. Roughly the same number as before and the same number planned for the next several years. I don't know if that 120 number is correct, but it has to be damn close based on what I've seen. I haven't been in Phili's during the season and not seen a handful of groups. Every time I fly in/out of Bethel in September I talk to everyone wearing camo. There are typically 0-2 PB groups and 5+ Renfro groups per flight. Two jets a day for a month. I have an inbox full of people saying they spent years trying to book with PB and finally just called Renfro and were immediately on the schedule. So the numbers must be close. It's not apples to apples because Renfro does some wheeled stuff. Even if it's 50/50 wheels and floats, that's an insane amount of hunters in that small area.

PB takes two groups a day so they can avoid delays and can spread people out in the field to give their clients a wilderness trip. Twice I've been at the lodge between Sept 11-15th and they didn't even have clients scheduled to fly that day - they are designated catch up days for if there is weather. The owner of PB is a hunter himself. The reason he is a pilot and lives in AK is because he craves his own wilderness experiences. So he has chosen to take no more than 20-25 groups so he can give his clients the type of hunt he would want even though his schedule and fleet would allow for him to easily double or triple that number. The amount of money he leaves on the table by choosing that route in favor of hunter experience is substantial. I know PB has reached out to Renfro the last several years to sit down and coordinate drop off points to avoid conflict and confusion and give clients the best trip possible and all those calls and messages have gone unanswered.

At one point this season, there was a PB client that had 2 groups placed around them within 1.5 miles in a triangulated pattern. Each had a boat so they were all hunting the same stuff. They basically all met up and talked and worked it out best they could, but it's a safety issue at that point not knowing where people are. It was all lawful, so you can be your own judge on the ethics of 1. dropping your clients on another operator's group 2. later dropping your own clients on top of each other as well. I hope those guys chime in. The working class bowhunter guys have a podcast from last year you can go listen to where basically the same thing happened where they were covered in moose and shot a bull the first day and another group was dropped on them the next day that blew everything up. They were eventually moved to another location. I can give at least a dozen other stories from people I've talked to. All technically legal. I was standing there and heard the whole conversation when Renfro called PB 1/3 through the season this year claiming because PB was raising his hunter numbers through the roof PB took all "his" spots and he was going to run out of spots for his hunters. At the time PB had 12 groups in the field and just of the camps that could be easily counted from the air, Renfro had 35 on the ground. With 10 more days to keep dropping folks 3 beavers at a time, 2-3 times a day. Those are just in lake drop areas.

There will be several people chime in with experiences where they never saw or heard another person. They are likely all true. There are numerous lakes out there where there simply isn't another place to land another Beaver for miles. But there are only so many of them and there are also parts of the unit where the land is a continuous checkerboard of places to land and stack as many folks in as you choose. Booking agents, social media folks. and return clients likely have a story of a remote experience because I'm sure there is a level or prioritization. It has really spiraled out of control the last year or two so people's experience will vary based on when they went. And again, it's very specific to lake areas. Anecdotal accounts of hunting wheeled spots are irrelevant.

I'm to the point where it's starting to negatively effect my hunt and I'm getting dozens of reports of other hunters spending $15-$20k only to have to deal with this nonsense of hunting around others. It's starting to really piss me off so it's time so say something and that's why I'm speaking up. In defense of both PB clients and Renfro clients that don't know any better (I had 2 Renfro groups complaining to me in the airport this year about being crowded by guys from the same hangar). I'm very pro-capitalism, but at some point there is a line and I think what's happening is absolute unethical garbage. Justin at PB would probably actually be pissed if/when he sees this post, but I'm defending the people looking to hunt the area and not him. He's so humble don't be surprised if he sees this and it's gone after he asks me to remove it. He will continue to excel with the personal morals he has in place and the limited number of groups he's decided to book; no matter how much BS he has to deal with, he's the type of guy that wouldn't say sh!t if his mouth was full of it.

I will personally be contacting the refuge and asking some questions on how this is all acceptable. Ideally both companies would sit down with the refuge prior to the season and put together a map, as proposed numerous times by Papa Bear. I simply don't understand why Wade is so against it. It's a shame that it's gotten to the point it has.

Your assumed Renfro numbers are more than double what I was told this year when I asked that question directly. That included guided and unguided parties.


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[Yellowknife]

O

Alaska is crowded everywhere. It's crazy how many people live up here nowadays and everybody has a boat, plane, snowmachines, quads, you name it. It's frikking crazy crowded up here nowadays.

Re: moose hunter numbers looking back 20 years the 2021 hunting numbers were actually slightly less than the year 2000. Resident hunters numbered 25,636 (2021) vs 26,431 (2000) and non-resident 2,632 (2021) vs 2,959 (2000)

There have been some minor ups and downs over the last couple decades, but overall pressure has been pretty flat since the at least the mid 90's. Harvest has ranged roughly between 7000 - 8000 moose per year for a long time now.

 

[Mykolaivka887]

O


Re: moose hunter numbers looking back 20 years the 2021 hunting numbers were actually slightly less than the year 2000. Resident hunters numbered 25,636 (2021) vs 26,431 (2000) and non-resident 2,632 (2021) vs 2,959 (2000)

There have been some minor ups and downs over the last couple decades, but overall pressure has been pretty flat since the at least the mid 90's. Harvest has ranged roughly between 7000 - 8000 moose per year for a long time now.

Wasn't referring to just moose hunters. People in general, consumptive users and non-consumptive users alike, resident combined with nonresident.

 

[Nontyp]

We booked Renfros for 2025. I wanted to go with Papa bear but with their draw system we wanted to have a solid date to plan on. The draw system is fair just hard to plan on. I think Renfros told me they had 52 guys in 2021. We moose hunted unit 16 last year and had lots of planes circling to land on our lake but then they seen our PR 49 and moved on, there were 2 camps on our small lake.

 

[Scottf270]

I hunted with Papa Bear this year. Asked to be dropped in same area I hunted in 2019. While flying in, I asked Justin how he and Renfro's were getting along and if any issues had surfaced. He said he thought things were fine.

When we circled to land, we saw a raft in the slough and saw the hunters tent. Justin was upset and I was disappointed. Justin offered to put us in one of his favorite spots but did say Renfro's had already had a group in there and had taken two bulls. We elected to go to his original "second spot" and had a good hunt.

I found it sad I had just asked about conflict between them and then found my intended spot taken. I hope they work out things as it negativity affects both companies hunters.

 

[twtays]

Just spent four days trapped in Renfro hanger. Staff said they were doing 127 drop camps and 27 guided moose hunts this year. Lot larger numbers than discussed above.

 

[Scottf270]

I had heard, not from anyone associated with Papa Bear, that Renfro's lost some permits in the area they run their guided hunts in. I wonder if this caused them to shift pressure to the same area as their drop off hunts?

I looked at Renfro's early in my research, but just couldn't get over the several plane crash incidents. I wondered if the massive amount of hunters they take forces them to try flying in sketchy conditions.