- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 11,878
Oh. So it want the issue here? How many other instances do you suppose it also wasn’t the issue?
How many people have to show up to a 5 day course in real weather and shoot 1,200+ rounds without cleaning their rifles, shoot and see shot the rifles with thousands and thousands of rounds (some 10,000 plus) that have never been cleaned, and yet- no issues. At all.
Last year it was over 40 shooters, and more than 50,000 rounds from 223, 22 UM, 243win, 6 CM, 6 UM, 6.5 Grendel, 6.5cm, 6.5 PRC, 6.5-7 PRC, 7PRC, 308win, 300 win mag, 300 PRC, 338L, and more I am forgetting. No cleaning, tons of dust, sand, snow, rain, and mud- and yet not a single issue.
I’m not the only one saying it, but even if I were- that doesn’t make it wrong. Why don’t you try it?
Again- the last 5 years should have been a flashing red light that maybe “experts” and “consensus” should be looked at deeply and with a jaundiced eye.
Because I am actually doing it daily?
What do you say to people who are seeing several hundred thousand rounds fired every single year with every combination that “experts” (who aren’t actually shooting or directly seeing guns shot) claim will cause issue- that has not once seen those same issues? It isn’t some little secret- 15-18 people at every S2H class now get to see it with their own eyes- and nothing happens. Rifles don’t have pressure issues, “carbon rings” don’t cause problems, and the guns shoot as good or better at round 1,000 as they do at round 10.
The only issues that have caused problems are hand loads doing the stated things- hot, in lands, neck sizing. Factory ammo- 0 issues.
Because those people aren’t actually doing it. I don’t have to appeal to authority from people I don’t now- I can walk out and see for myself. So could you if you’d try.
I have shot at least 10 rifles from members that have reached out that had “carbon rings”, pressure problems, etc. And in every single case it was doing stupid things like- over pressure loads, loading into or on the lands, not full length sizing, tight chambers. In every single case, correcting those issues solved the problem, and they never had issues again not cleaning.
Only claim to fame? Or the only thing that’s relevant? How is anything other than shooting lots and lots of bullet from lots and lots barrels, from lots of different cartridges without cleaning, going to tell you anything about not cleaning?
Hmmm. I don’t think you understand what an appeal to authority fallacy is. Please find a single time where I have stated to do something “because I said so, and you should do it because I have ‘X’ title”.
You won’t. Because I have stated since my first posts here that the industry is a lie, and you need to experiment yourself.
Ah I can all but guarantee that there is no one alive who have seen more rounds shot from guns without cleaning barrels. The very few non DOD/DOJ places that see those rounds counts have never tried, and there are a tiny handful of people inside the DOD/DOJ that aren’t mandated to clean rifles constantly.
However, interestingly there is a relatively major organization that recently overhauled its marksmanship program, and the new handbook states that “guns do not need to be cleaned in general to function or maintain precision/accuracy. Cleaning is to remove debris such as sand and mud, when required for function”. Or so I’ve heard.
Tell you what- why don’t you come to a S2H class this summer, you can shoot our rifles and ammo, we’ll video it and if guns have problems from not cleaning S2H will pay all of your expenses. If on the other hand after 15,000-20,000 rounds that week, if no pressure issues or “carbon ring” problems show up- then you pay and come back here and let everyone know that maybe you are incorrect. @Ryan Avery @Megalodon would like to come show us how stupid we are. I believe the rental 6 CM and factory ammo should be the best case for him to show how wrong we are.
