Did anyone 'Corner Cross' this year while hunting?

[Customweld]

I've got a question for all of you savvy folks, that I have not seen addressed.

Pertaining to accessing landlocked or otherwise inaccessible lands. Lets say you have a piece of state or national forest that is landlocked by private. Lets say there is a private road that is often used by an adjacent landowner to "check cows/water" or "resupply salt blocks" that begins on adjacent private land and then proceeds to continue across and/or through the public property. Theoretically, when that road enters the public piece of property, does it become a public roadway, assuming access could be legally obtained? Or is that road way somehow still considered a private road even when traversing public property?


If the roadway is not a public roadway, then why the H do the adjacent landowners get to access it whenever they want for whatever reason they want?


Were talking about Montana here.

Similar thing I found here in Idaho. Was up camping a couple of weeks ago and was glassing across a big drainage and noticed a cabin tucked in the timber that I had never seen before. I hopped on Basemap and sure enough there is 120 acre island completely surrounded by NF land. The access road is a forest service road that has been long since shut down and gated. (any road not shown on the MVUM is considered closed). So I called the FS ranger and asked how they were accessing that ground. The FS granted them a special summer use permit and a special winter use permit. So this owner gets to drive 4 plus miles through a closed road system throughout hunting season. It's prime elk and deer ground because that is the only road in the area and has been closed up until last year for any travel for 30 plus years.

 

[Geewhiz]

Similar thing I found here in Idaho. Was up camping a couple of weeks ago and was glassing across a big drainage and noticed a cabin tucked in the timber that I had never seen before. I hopped on Basemap and sure enough there is 120 acre island completely surrounded by NF land. The access road is a forest service road that has been long since shut down and gated. (any road not shown on the MVUM is considered closed). So I called the FS ranger and asked how they were accessing that ground. The FS granted them a special summer use permit and a special winter use permit. So this owner gets to drive 4 plus miles through a closed road system throughout hunting season. It's prime elk and deer ground because that is the only road in the area and has been closed up until last year for any travel for 30 plus years.

Frustrating. Along those same lines. I'm talking about landowners that own ground adjacent to difficult or impossible to access public land that freely drive all over those public lands like they own them. Are they driving outside of the law and its just that nobody cares or is there some sort of agreement that they have access to drive on those lands for the purchase of associated ranching duties? Either way we all full well know they take advantage of that and use it for more personal reasons than just ranching access.

It seams that its got to be more than just a single route easement b/c they drive all over whether there is a 2 track or not.

 

[Customweld]

Frustrating. Along those same lines. I'm talking about landowners that own ground adjacent to difficult or impossible to access public land that freely drive all over those public lands like they own them. Are they driving outside of the law and its just that nobody cares or is there some sort of agreement that they have access to drive on those lands for the purchase of associated ranching duties? Either way we all full well know they take advantage of that and use it for more personal reasons than just ranching access.

It seams that its got to be more than just a single route easement b/c they drive all over whether there is a 2 track or not.

You know they are!

 

[S.Clancy]

Frustrating. Along those same lines. I'm talking about landowners that own ground adjacent to difficult or impossible to access public land that freely drive all over those public lands like they own them. Are they driving outside of the law and its just that nobody cares or is there some sort of agreement that they have access to drive on those lands for the purchase of associated ranching duties? Either way we all full well know they take advantage of that and use it for more personal reasons than just ranching access.

It seams that its got to be more than just a single route easement b/c they drive all over whether there is a 2 track or not.

You know they are!

They may or may not be. Any Ag producer with the accompanying public ground lease is free to drive in basically whenever as long as they are "checking cows".....and not tearing the shit out of stuff.

 

[Customweld]

They may or may not be. Any Ag producer with the accompanying public ground lease is free to drive in basically whenever as long as they are "checking cows".....and not tearing the shit out of stuff.

Yeah, I ran into one out "looking" for cows behind a locked gate at the end of November with a handful of guys in a crew cab Ford who happened to have late cow elk tags. They were looking for cows alright.

 

[Geewhiz]

My question is, if there is a road on a landlocked parcel, is it a public road or not?

 

[Svivian]

My question is, if there is a road on a landlocked parcel, is it a public road or not?

If its not marked or maintained by the county, BLM or National forest then it is not a public road.

 

[Geewhiz]

If its not marked or maintained by the county, BLM or National forest then it is not a public road.

So basically the bottom line is the adjacent landowners are committing crimes using those roads for other than agreed upon reasons. Got it.

 

[Svivian]

So basically the bottom line is the adjacent landowners are committing crimes using those roads for other than agreed upon reasons. Got it.

Without knowing the property you are talking about in your example that would be an assumption on your part. He very well has something worked out with the neighboring land owner or some sort of grandfathered easement allowing him access.

In regards to the public land piece of it, im not sure the legalities of carving your own road/trail into public land from private. I dont think this is uncommon practice and if he is grazing cattle into public he very well could have the right to make that access.

 

[Danny Hoey]

IF I ever win mega billions....I'd give y'all helicopter rides into this parcels so you could hunt them for a couple days

 

[Sccritterkiller]

Similar thing I found here in Idaho. Was up camping a couple of weeks ago and was glassing across a big drainage and noticed a cabin tucked in the timber that I had never seen before. I hopped on Basemap and sure enough there is 120 acre island completely surrounded by NF land. The access road is a forest service road that has been long since shut down and gated. (any road not shown on the MVUM is considered closed). So I called the FS ranger and asked how they were accessing that ground. The FS granted them a special summer use permit and a special winter use permit. So this owner gets to drive 4 plus miles through a closed road system throughout hunting season. It's prime elk and deer ground because that is the only road in the area and has been closed up until last year for any travel for 30 plus years.

I have seen this in several NFs all over the country. I actually know a guy that owns a parcel like that. The road is usually recorded as an non exclusive access easement for the private parcel. In a lot cases the NF has to issue them a permit per legal description of the easement.

In most cases that parcel was private before everything around it was declared NF, probably been owned by the same family for 100yrs or more.I dont think there land should be taken or there access cut off just because they were there before the NF.

If it's legal to walk up the road to the private boundary how is this an access issue?

 

[Geewhiz]

IF I ever win mega billions....I'd give y'all helicopter rides into this parcels so you could hunt them for a couple days

First off, I appreciate the offer and genuinely hope you win the jackpot!!


But thats the point man, you can't even fly in. It's not legal.

 

[Danny Hoey]

First off, I appreciate the offer and genuinely hope you win the jackpot!!


But thats the point man, you can't even fly in. It's not legal.

It's not legal to fly in? How can that be?

 

[Svivian]

First off, I appreciate the offer and genuinely hope you win the jackpot!!


But thats the point man, you can't even fly in. It's not legal.

Hell i think ole Randy Newberg has video of him doing exactly that in Montana

 

[Geewhiz]

It's not legal to fly in? How can that be?

Thats what I'm saying. Its legal to fly in to BLM if you land on an existing roadway. It is not legal to fly into state land or nat forest. The only way I have found is if you are good enough friends with the pilot that he agrees to hover and not actually touch down, while you jump out of the helicopter. But good luck with that. Cant touch down though. its a load of crap IMO. It brings it to a whole new level when you arent even talking about """tresspassing""" through corner crossing.

 

[Geewhiz]

Hell i think ole Randy Newberg has video of him doing exactly that in Montana

They landed on BLM. Not nat forest or state. There are many nat forest and state sections that do not abutt BLM and are completely inaccessible without landowner permission, which they will not give.

Trying to figure out how to access them. I guess the only option left is to burrow.

 

[Danny Hoey]

Thats what I'm saying. Its legal to fly in to BLM if you land on an existing roadway. It is not legal to fly into state land or nat forest. The only way I have found is if you are good enough friends with the pilot that he agrees to hover and not actually touch down, while you jump out of the helicopter. But good luck with that. Cant touch down though. its a load of crap IMO. It brings it to a whole new level when you arent even talking about """tresspassing""" through corner crossing.

I'll let the pilot know.

 

[Dust Rider]

They landed on BLM. Not nat forest or state. There are many nat forest and state sections that do not abutt BLM and are completely inaccessible without landowner permission, which they will not give.

Trying to figure out how to access them. I guess the only option left is to burrow.

It’s only a $500 fine to land a helicopter in a wilderness area.
Landlocked state or NF? I don’t know. Helicopters touch down all the time for skiers on NF mountains. It’s not like your driving on the land, just gently resting the Bell 204 for a quick second while you get out.

 

[Geewhiz]

It’s only a $500 fine to land a helicopter in a wilderness area.
Landlocked state or NF? I don’t know. Helicopters touch down all the time for skiers on NF mountains. It’s not like your driving on the land, just gently resting the Bell 204 for a quick second while you get out.

Huh didnt actually think about the skiers. The risk is the FAA taking your pilot license. Plus im talking airplanes here. Kinda got to land those buggers while somebody jumps out or the pilot stays and hunts.

 

[Customweld]

My question is, if there is a road on a landlocked parcel, is it a public road or not?

The risk is the FAA taking your pilot license.

It’s actually illegal in Idaho through the fish and game hunting regulations, unless you land on a designated airstrip. So even if it was ok through the federal agencies, you couldn’t do it per IFG. (I know you guys are talking Montana)