Diaphragms, What am I doing wrong?

Bkaufmann

FNG
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
45
Location
Eagle, Colorado
Just bought the Elknut chuckler el starter calling kit and I was super excited to try using a diaphragm for the first time.

I'm watching the video that came with it and the only sound I seem to be able to make is the sound of those party blowers.
Did anyone else suck this bad when they started?

I seem to never have luck with these sort of things, could never roll my R's in spanish and sure as heck cant do a feeder call for duck hunting.

Am I just call handicapped?

Thanks,

Ben.
 
I had the same problem. My wife figured it out first. She said it is like fitting a retainer when she had braces. I still struggle some.
 
Put reed on tongue so latex faces front of mouth and the palate peice goes up. I put mine slightly farther back in the roof of my mouth. But not super far back. Nibble the cloth stuff around the diaphram to get it flexible and wet a bit. This will also help it seal in mouth. Then i almost kinda push up on the outsides of my tongue against the edge of my teeth amd gums leaving almost a tunnel down the middle of my tongue and force air down the tunnnel. Use the center area of tongue tunnel to apply pressure on the latex. Start with a cow call cause the bull is just an extended cow call. At the top of the cow call there is more pressure on the reed and then you drop off the pressure. Imagine forcing the air in a eeeee ewwww type movement. You dont need a ton of pressre and dont need to blow hard either. You will wreck latex fastter doing this!
 
Good info above! Here's some additional thoughts I've saved!


One thing to note is any hunter can use a narrow framed reed, doesn't matter if he has a wide palate or not but not anyone can use a wide 5/8" reed. If in doubt consider the 1/2" version first! Some wonder if they can learn to use a mouth reed? I you can brush your teeth without gagging then yes you can learn to use one!


Should I use a standard reed or a palate plate reed? Does it matter & what's the difference?


When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where vinyl covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the vinyl tag for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the canvas vinyl like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.

Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on non palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the vinyl tag to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the vinyl should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for more subtle sounds as cow calling or smaller bull sounds. Tip of tongue, front or the back of tip portion can be used for louder bull sounds as lip bawls or long range location bugles.

One of the easiest sounds to perform are cow sounds, use center of tongue if so desired with light to medium pressure & say Shhhhhhh softly, by adjusting air-flow, tongue tension and or position of tongue in a forward or backward motion very slightly you will achieve the desired tone. You want to practice this first before you move on to bull sounds. Take one step at a time, conquer it, then move to the next step towards bull sounds. One note with bull sounds is you will need to add your own voice inflections into most of these sounds, the mouth reed can only be counted on for those creative higher notes & raspy aggressive sounds, it's a learning process but easily done with the proper motivation & understanding that it will take a few practice sessions to get comfortable with the reed in ones mouth. This cannot be done as a 1st timer in one or two 5-10 minute sessions. Plan on 4 weeks of persistent practice 10 minutes a day, some are quicker learner than others. (grin) Give yourself a chance & be persistent & you can succeed!


Final note, mouth reeds can get old! The latex can fatigue quickly if left in direct sunlight in rig or at home, sometimes in less than 30 minutes. You also have to watch out if left in the home on a table or desk where direct lamplight or sunlight can attack the latex. With lots of daily use they need to be traded out with a new one in a month or so. If doing lots of lip bawls or harsh aggressive bugling their life expectancy can be much less! When sounds are not crisp & clean as the first day of use it's time for a new one! Store in cool dry places.




ElkNut1
 
I sounded terrible when I first started but now have mastered the cow and calf sounds, even chuckles, but still having trouble on the bugles and growls. I felt my learning curve was a little shorter because I learned how to Turkey call at a young age but still need more practice on the bugles. Keep at it, it will come around.
 
well, I can officially make sounds now, (not Elk sounds quite yet but huge headway.) I wasnt getting a seal at the top of my mouth with cloth on them.

Huge relief for me so far.

Thanks guys.
 
Awesome, you are now on your way, the ice has been broken! (grin) By the way your reed is a 1/2" model, you should be good to go! The Mellow Yellow reed is a great user friendly reed to start with!

For growls & throaty bull sounds ones need to use voice inflection along with using your reed, growl a bit like a bear, you can tailor the sound from there! It takes a bit of practice but once you achieve it you can manage the coarseness that's needed quite easily. Good luck!

ElkNut1
 
Seriously, thanks so much for the help.

I've been watching both your videos & steve chappels videos online and ive already improved a ton in this short time.
 
Yes everyone sucks the first few times they try and blow a reed. Don't get discouraged just keep practicing. They call it a diaphragm reed for a reason. Thats cause most of your air should be pushed up from your diaphragm. Pitch and volume come from tongue and air pressure. When I teach people how to use them I start them off by making any sound I don't care what it sounds like. Once you have a base sound then you need to practice scaling up and scaling down. This will help you learn control. Once you feel you have a handle on scaling then you can start to make sounds that resemble an elk. To achieve growls, chuckles, and grunts you can introduce voice sounds. Best of luck
 
Takes mooooey practice but don't get discouraged we all started at same place......plenty of time till season
 
Try a few different types of diaphragms to see which ones work the best for you. I can't stand the ones with the metal plate that goes up. I really have to struggle with getting them right to make the sounds I want. But my flat diaphragms go right into place and I don't even have to think about them. And yes, I chew on them all day long as they're in my mouth from before first light to after last light, unless I'm eating, or drinking my coffee.
 
Lots of info given, bottom line to your question is!!!! Give it more practice time! Many hunters feel if they are not getting a reasonable cow or bull sound in under an hour that something is wrong with the call or they can't do it! No sir, it takes weeks before you start managing the reed & getting used to it if you have no experience with mouth reeds! Give it more time! You will finally get the hang of it!

5Miles, you most likely have a very wide pallet, you probably require a 5/8" reed! Right?

ElkNut1
 
5Miles, you most likely have a very wide pallet, you probably require a 5/8" reed! Right?

ElkNut1

It's kind of odd. I ordered up some of the Phelp's diaphragms a couple years ago. It was the first time I even knew that there were different sizes as I had to choose between 1/2" and 5/8". So I measured my calls and saw they were 5/8" so ordered those. They came and I didn't like them, I still struggled to get them in the right spot even though they were identical in size to my current ones. Then you sent me a couple of the 1/2" ones and they work fine. So I guess it still depends on the exact call, not necessarily what size.
 
In addition to lots of good advice above, my one word of advice is to RELAX.

When I first started out I would get all pissed and frustrated and straining too hard I would let out some god awful sounds. Just trying too hard was my biggest obstacle. It won't click until you are relaxed and speaking the language second nature. Still I would say it took me 20 or 30 hours of initial practice to get the hang of it. I'm no great caller but now that I have it down I just need a week or two before the season to get tuned up again and I'm good enough. Each elk has its own voice, and some of them would be laughed out of a calling competition so keep that in mind you don't have to be perfect either.
 
I bought a set a couple of years ago for Colorado. My first ever diaphragm calls!
Put one in, following the instructions, gently exhaled across the reed, made a noise like "pppffftbtbtbtffp....." spat it halfway across the kitchen & watched the dog eat it. Incidentally making far better noises with it than I did.

I grabbed another & promptly inhaled the %€#*ing thing, halfway choking myself. Mind you, I let out a spectacular cow call while The Wife gave me the Heimlich.....

I never got round to trying the third.
 
It does take some getting used to having a call in your mouth. I tell people that haven't ever used a call to just put the call in their mouth for a couple of hours and get used to the feel of it in their mouth. Some people have a small pallet and you have to trim the edge of the call to get it to it on the roof of your mouth. Then, close the door to your "own private space" and start making noises. It will come with time and after a while it can become second nature.

I must add that the absolute, worst elk talk that I have ever heard came from a 330", six point!
 
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