Definitive arrow study- Easton

[BBob]

your reasoning?

Beyond a certain point in real-world conditions, particularly in wind, the steering influence of the broadhead outweighs the vanes’ ability to stabilize flight with too much FOC. And what he said above ^^^

Edit: I added "with too much FOC" to the above to further clarify my thoughts.

Back in the day when I shot a ton and experimented a ton I kept records of how and what I shot day in day out and figured out what worked for me. "High" FOC wasn't it, at least for me.

 

[Beendare]

Back in the day when I shot a ton and experimented a ton I kept records of how and what I shot day in day out and figured out what worked for me. "High" FOC wasn't it, at least for me.

So many very good bowhunters and shooters I know have said the same.....

 

[ozyclint]

Beyond a certain point in real-world conditions, particularly in wind, the steering influence of the broadhead outweighs the vanes’ ability to stabilize flight with too much FOC.

How? A BH has less surface area than the fetching and with high FOC it has a way shorter lever with which to impart any lateral force than the fetching does.

I do agree that very high FOC arrows can be effected by crosswinds more meaning they fly more sideways

 

[ozyclint]

Just figured what you were eluding too, I think. You mean in a cross wind the high FOC arrow can tail out which points the BH to the opposite side which induces steering. ??

My argument was in still conditions the fletching will have far more influence than the BH

 

[Beendare]

@ozyclint, the you start referring to terms like lever arm...we know who you have been listening to for arrow advice. Grin

My bet is this study blows those old EFOC theories out of the water.

The fletch part of the study gives us a clue; Essentially, we need enough fletch....and more is not better. In a cross wind, too much fletch acts much like extra weight on the tip- a lot more pressure on the rear portion of the arrow pushing more arrow sideways.

What Easton and all the pros have figured out- a little bit of FOC is a good thing for best arrow flight and accuracy....plus its better on the launch and the best in cross wind performance.

Be careful where you get your arrow advice. The claims of better penetration for high FOC have never been scientifically proven. We have known since the 1940's, an arrow with an FOC of 10-12% flys further which indicates the best possible performance. Adding more arrow weight WILL give you better penetration- the heavier arrow absorbs more of the bows energy. Penetration is non issue with most bows that have energy to burn....and is more of a function of BH efficiency than arrow factors.

 

[ozyclint]

I don't really care how far an arrow flies. It's not an indicator of performance to me. It's only got to travel 15m before it has to go through a water buffalo. Getting through the water buffalo is the important bit to me.

The video is well named....a ballistic study.
They've conducted tests from bow to target with scrutiny on arrow flight and accuracy.

Does no one care about terminal ballistics? How the arrow reacts when encountering different forms of resistance.

 

[Beendare]

I don't really care how far an arrow flies. It's not an indicator of performance to me. It's only got to travel 15m before it has to go through a water buffalo. Getting through the water buffalo is the important bit to me.

The video is well named....a ballistic study.
They've conducted tests from bow to target with scrutiny on arrow flight and accuracy.

Does no one care about terminal ballistics? How the arrow reacts when encountering different forms of resistance.

How far an arrow flies is an indication of the most efficient configuration.

Water Buff are in a whole different bow hunt category of what works for every other animal in North America. The Buff need a very heavy arrow, heavier poundage bow and an efficient BH.

The resistance when the arrow meets the animal has more to do with the BH design than anything else. Dale Karch of 3 Rivers has an old video showing the difference. How do we know that plays out in the real world? A million animals killed with low poundage Trad setups...and ALL of those use a very efficient COC BH. The arrows with a 2 blade from my 46# recurve barely slowed down through an 800# moose in Colorado- 2 arrows complete passthrough skipping along the ground past the animal.

 

[Bump79]

Actually, he goes into more study parameters here and the torque introduced to the bow and why.

I'm bummed. He detuned the bow here in this study too for a 1" tear. I know a bunch of guys that would be appalled with a 1" tear.....heck, I don't get a 1" tear with my recurve.

Look, I'm not trying to be a naysayer here. It's a fantastic study with incredibly accurate calibration and meticulous data collection. Well done.

BUT....He obviously thinks there are a lot of bowhunters that cannot tune or hold consistent form. Maybe he's right, I dunno?

He's just testing at extremes. I tried to do a similar test a few years back with a pile a vane configurations. You'd be surprised how for out of tune you have to be to notice the difference in vanes. Mainly once you get to the category of "enough" vs "best" vane.

 

[CMF]

The majority are back yard shooters, bought the bow online, and borrowed arrows from a friend day before season! They probably aren’t your friends

How do you know that?

I'm playing devils advocate, I would assume you are right...but thats why I phrased it as bowhunters you know. Thats accurate info- not guessing.

I would agree with wildwilderness from my experiences.
I've seen a guy get a bow out the day before, hit 2 out of 3 on a paper plate at 10yds, and say he's ready to go.
I know some bow shops that don't do much for tuning other than paper and a rest or nock adjustment.

 

[fatlander]

Short high profile vanes will do better than longer lower profile vanes. There’s a reason the blazer profile became the standard in bow hunting over the last few decades, they work.

I think he’s going to find that heavier arrows, which will have higher FOC than lighter arrows, are better corrected by fletchings out of an untuned and torqued bow. I’m not sure if it’s an FOC thing or a speed thing, but I know fixed blade broadheads are always easier to tune at slower speeds; once you get over 300 FPS, fixed heads are really unforgiving.

Through my couple decades of bow hunting, I’ve come to the conclusion that a 4-500 grain arrow, with a well designed mechanical, moving around 280 fps, with 3 high profile vanes on the back is the most forgiving hunting setup one can build. It hits behind the pin more often when you’re at your worst, which is almost always a hunting situation. I’m betting he’s going to find something similar.


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[JeffRaines]

BUT....He obviously thinks there are a lot of bowhunters that cannot tune or hold consistent form. Maybe he's right, I dunno?

He's right.

There's a fellow I work with who last season went out and purchased a brand new Mathews with all the fixins. First new bow in years, but a different brand than he normally shoots. He shoots it well with field points, but as soon as he screws on broad heads he is all over the target to the point that he's scared to shoot it at 20y with broad heads on.

I tried to gently explain to him that it's probably his form, but he wasn't having that. He shoots his other bow perfectly, it's just this one. I wasn't gonna be the guy to keep prodding about it, but there's no way it's not his form.

Another fellow I work with hasn't shot his bow in quite awhile but occasionally will go out and shoot and "be ready for the season". I'm not saying I'm Mr. Perfect when it comes to consistency, but there's a difference between taking some months off vs years, going out one weekend and "being ready".

Yet another guy I worked with bragged about having a 300rum but then admitted that he doesn't shoot it but once a year because it kicks like a mule. He'd take it out and put one or two through it every year to make sure it was still zeroed and then show up to elk camp.

Point being, people on forums like this are an extreme outlier. Most guys go buy a bow, have the shop "tune it" and they hunt with it. Arrows not hitting with field points? Adjust the sight and worry about it later. Shoot like hell beyond 30y? Nah it's fine I'll probably be good at 50y if a nice one walks out I'm letting it fly! Same thing with guys and rifles. They go buy a 6.5 creed/308/30-06/300, have the shop boresight the scope, go shoot a couple rounds through it to adjust/verify zero and call it good for the season.

Both guys then wonder why their bullet failed, or their expandable didn't open up properly and they lost the animal... that's what happens when you shoot an animal in the ass(or miss entirely).