Deciding on a 22 and is the ARC really that great?

[Hornseeker]

Ok, I have read a lot about the 22 ARC and with the recent AK Bull moose kill on youtube, combined of course with the 223 for deer, elk, moose, sasquatch, etc thread, I've been seriously considering stepping Up ;0) to a 22 for hunting. Very quick background, 2 years ago I switched from the trusty old 06' to a 6.5 Creed, wife from 308 to 6.5 Creed... in those two years we've put down 5 deer a bull and a cow elk. All with same results we ever got from the 30s.

Back to the 22s now. If the 223 is effective, and wowsa, it obviously is, out to absurd distances (lets say 700 yards with shorter barreled rifles and staying near that 1800 fps minimum with the 77 or 80s)... then the ARC with the 88s should just be pure death. I think 22 creed, then look at it shooting the factory 80s compared to the ARC shooting factory 88s and the ARC actually overtakes it at about 800ish yards. This blows my mind. I'm only going by internet/google research, but ballistics seem to indicate this is the case! Really?

It's also not super clear whether the ARC is a great bolt gun cartridge due to possible feeding issues??

Love to discuss this for a bit and hear from those with first hand experience!

 

[Hornseeker]

And... as I honestly can't foresee shooting more than 500 yards... am I just silly to not roll with the 223?

 

[RWT]

Folllowing as I made the decision to narrow the entire arsenal to 2 calibers. 22 &6.5. The 6.5 I am running a CM and Grendel. The 22 only have 223 and want a faster version as I “think” I will have an easier wind call. I don’t know and am looking forward the same information as the OP. Yes I am being a CS and trying to buy my way into being a better shooter beyond practice. I also can’t get the itch scratched for new toys.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Everybody should have a 22lr and a 223...

Once all my grendel ammo gets burned up, I'll most likely swap out the barrel. Be it a 22 or 6ARC I do not know yet.

None of these will make things anymore dead than your creedmore will.

 

[The Guide]

So I have a Ruger American 22CM running factory 80 ELDM and a Howa 22 ARC running factory 88 ELDM, both with 22" barrels. On Monday, I had pretty poor atmospheric conditions at home (eastern Montana river bottom) that gave me 182' of density altitude. My calculator shows me 1800 fps @ 770 yards for the 22CM with the 80 ELDM with a MV of 3150 fps and 655 yards for the 22 ARC with the 88 ELDM with a MV of 2792. Where I hunt in the mountains of the western part of the state, I'm rarely below 5000' DA. Swapping the DA only, I get 1800 fps for the 22CM @ 890 yards and the 22 ARC @ 760 yards.

For my guns, when you are just above sea level you well past 600 yards to 1800 fps and at a midrange mountain hunt you are well past 700 yards. This would provide you more range than most people shouldn't be shooting 22 caliber bullets to (due to minimal splash and trace). For reference, my 22" Howa Mini 223 shooting 77tmk @ 2714 fps is at 470 yards and 540 yards with those same parameters. I see the 223 as 440 yard gun, the 22 ARC as a 600 yard gun, and the 22CM as a 700 yard gun while giving yourself some extra velocity for expansion. You are still over 1/4 miles for the 223, 1/3 mile for the 22 ARC, and close to a 1/2 mile on the 22CM.

Jay

 

[RWT]

Is the ARC closest to a 223 or a 22-250 in terms of drop and drift

 

[The Guide]

Is the ARC closest to a 223 or a 22-250 in terms of drop and drift

Hard to say what a 22-250 would be like as there are no factory heavy for caliber options for loaded ammo. I would say it splits the difference between a 223 and a 22CM with it being closer to 22CM than 223 in drop and drift.

Jay

 

[Team4LongGun]

So I have a Ruger American 22CM running factory 80 ELDM and a Howa 22 ARC running factory 88 ELDM, both with 22" barrels. On Monday, I had pretty poor atmospheric conditions at home (eastern Montana river bottom) that gave me 182' of density altitude. My calculator shows me 1800 fps @ 770 yards for the 22CM with the 80 ELDM with a MV of 3150 fps and 655 yards for the 22 ARC with the 88 ELDM with a MV of 2792. Where I hunt in the mountains of the western part of the state, I'm rarely below 5000' DA. Swapping the DA only, I get 1800 fps for the 22CM @ 890 yards and the 22 ARC @ 760 yards.

For my guns, when you are just above sea level you well past 600 yards to 1800 fps and at a midrange mountain hunt you are well past 700 yards. This would provide you more range than most people shouldn't be shooting 22 caliber bullets to (due to minimal splash and trace). For reference, my 22" Howa Mini 223 shooting 77tmk @ 2714 fps is at 470 yards and 540 yards with those same parameters. I see the 223 as 440 yard gun, the 22 ARC as a 600 yard gun, and the 22CM as a 700 yard gun while giving yourself some extra velocity for expansion. You are still over 1/4 miles for the 223, 1/3 mile for the 22 ARC, and close to a 1/2 mile on the 22CM.

Jay

One of the best answers I've read in a long time on here.

 

[River Reaper]

I went with the 22 ARC as I wanted to shoot a factory rifle designed for factory heavy for caliber bullets so I could buy everything at my local Scheels. My RARE 22 ARC is an awesome shooter in all 3 Hornady factory offerings. It’s been a hammer on deer, coyotes, and varmints so far.

I don’t reload, and to buy the ammunition that everyone recommends heavy for caliber pre-loaded for the .223, it would cost the same or more as the factory offerings for the 22ARC. I have an old 1:12 twist .223 for really cheap shooting… I just need to get it threaded, as I don’t like shooting unsuppressed anymore.

The 22 Creed at $2.25/round didn’t interest me at all.

Edited to add I’ve been shooting stuff with the cheapest option this year, the 75ELD-Ms. I’ll shoot at least one more deer with them and the last one will either be the 75’s or 88’s, but the 88’s will get tested at some point, probably next year.

 

[Hornseeker]

Thanks for all the input. Really appreciate the discussion. I like the idea that the ARC ammo is pretty comparable to the 223 IF you are buying factory heavies. If that is indeed true, I can make a better case for the ARC.

For those with more experience and probably have even read more (I did see the AK Moose vid)... I kill virtually all of my animals at 40-150 yards. Hunt timber almost exclusively and sometimes I'll get a chance at something at 150. There are places I could shoot 400+, even 800 or whatever, but honestly, have not had that opportunity come up. So, I'm in the woods and the bull is 75 yards... any diff 'Really' in penetration and deathing between these three guns, all with their heavies?

 

[River Reaper]

Thanks for all the input. Really appreciate the discussion. I like the idea that the ARC ammo is pretty comparable to the 223 IF you are buying factory heavies. If that is indeed true, I can make a better case for the ARC.

For those with more experience and probably have even read more (I did see the AK Moose vid)... I kill virtually all of my animals at 40-150 yards. Hunt timber almost exclusively and sometimes I'll get a chance at something at 150. There are places I could shoot 400+, even 800 or whatever, but honestly, have not had that opportunity come up. So, I'm in the woods and the bull is 75 yards... any diff 'Really' in penetration and deathing between these three guns, all with their heavies?

I mean you’d likely get the most penetration out of the slowest offering at that range, all else equal (frangible bullet construction, bullet weight)

 

[nm.otter]

Chart below of popular .224 cartridges:

The Ratio column is a dimensionless number derived by dividing the case capacity (in cubic inches) by the square of bore diameter (in inches). You could derive the same number by using ml of case capacity and mm of bore diameter.

 

[Hornseeker]

Chart below of popular .224 cartridges:
View attachment 965648
The Ratio column is a dimensionless number derived by dividing the case capacity (in cubic inches) by the square of bore diameter (in inches).

is that what overbore is? Creed has the most overbore of all? Shortened barrel life...

 

[The Guide]

Thanks for all the input. Really appreciate the discussion. I like the idea that the ARC ammo is pretty comparable to the 223 IF you are buying factory heavies. If that is indeed true, I can make a better case for the ARC.

For those with more experience and probably have even read more (I did see the AK Moose vid)... I kill virtually all of my animals at 40-150 yards. Hunt timber almost exclusively and sometimes I'll get a chance at something at 150. There are places I could shoot 400+, even 800 or whatever, but honestly, have not had that opportunity come up. So, I'm in the woods and the bull is 75 yards... any diff 'Really' in penetration and deathing between these three guns, all with their heavies?

The 223 will ALWAYS be the cheapest to shoot as quality bulk ammo is available at prices below what you can reload them for.

Quality factory heavies for each round, prices I've paid...

223/5.56 factory 77 TMK from $0.80 to $1.40 per round depending on who is loading it.
22 ARC Hornady 75 ELDM $1.10 and up
22 ARC Hornady 88 ELDM $1.30 and up
22CM Hornady 80 ELDM $1.65 and up

I find a good deal and buy a case of it so it is all the same lot. Use ammoseek.com to search for good deals. Modify your search in the more options to see only vendors with a >6 rating and you will see fewer vendors that have cheap prices but are drop shippers and don't actually have any product on hand.

Jay

 

[nm.otter]

is that what overbore is?

Yes -- it's a formula I came up with to help me compare cartridge designs.

Creed has the most overbore of all? Shortened barrel life...

My spreadsheet includes just a handful of relatively popular chamberings. Given that, here it is in the midst of its (sorted by Ratio) neighbors:

 

[Hornseeker]

I mean you’d likely get the most penetration out of the slowest offering at that range, all else equal (frangible bullet construction, bullet weight)

You really think so? Why would the fast bullet not penetrate as much, the bullet just can't handle the impact speed? (If shooting frange?) So, if I was shooting 22 creed... and knew I was gonna shoot 150 yards or less... I should probably be shooting an AB or Partition or Mono or?

 

[River Reaper]

You really think so? Why would the fast bullet not penetrate as much, the bullet just can't handle the impact speed? (If shooting frange?) So, if I was shooting 22 creed... and knew I was gonna shoot 150 yards or less... I should probably be shooting an AB or Partition or Mono or?

The more velocity, the more likely a frangible bullet is to significantly upset and not penetrate as far.

It seems counterintuitive, but frangible bullets will actually penetrate deeper with narrower wounding at longer ranges as they slow down.

As far as 150 or less, I’d still be shooting cup and cores. You don’t need a guaranteed pass through to kill stuff and frangibles wound better than bonded/monos, leading to faster time to incapacitation.

Penetration won’t be an issue with any of the 3 guns.

 

[The Guide]

You really think so? Why would the fast bullet not penetrate as much, the bullet just can't handle the impact speed? (If shooting frange?) So, if I was shooting 22 creed... and knew I was gonna shoot 150 yards or less... I should probably be shooting an AB or Partition or Mono or?

For a lack of a better way to explain it, the faster a bullet starts to work, the fast the work gets done. As you approach the lower expansion/fragmentation velocity limit, the slower the work gets done in a time over distance format and therefore, the deeper the bullet will penetrate before stopping. Sometimes launching the bullet at speeds faster than required for the distances you will be shoot to can cause a lower performance threshold for the same bullet when comparing to it the wound channel from a lower muzzle velocity. Fastest isn't always better if you won't use the speed to get more distance. When comparing the 6.5CM to the 6.5 PRC and using the same bullets, there is no use for the 6.5 PRC if you would never shoot over 400 yards in my opinion.

In your situation where we are discussing 22 caliber cartridges and sub 500 yards, the 223 doesn't really get you to the distance you desire with factory ammo. The 22 ARC and 22CM both do but the 22CM is way more than you need and might be too much of a good thing. A 16" 22 ARC should get you past your desired distance by a good margin and still not under perform too much if your practicing allows you to stretch your maximum self imposed limit further out once you have more confidence and skills.

Jay