December $487 prefit group buy, several barrels are a go

[hereinaz]

@Lawnboi @Jmedin @Gstew1930 @TradLife406 @RockAndSage @Schmitty @HuntHarder

See information on 223AI reamer above.

What freebore consensus?

 

[HuntHarder]

I am good with the consensus. Mine will get a steady diet of 77gr factory ammo.

 

[Lawnboi]

Hey, .223 AI buyers.

223 AI reamer has .062" of freebore

We can change throat to the specs you want.

I’m good with .062. That’s the normal 223 wylde freebore and seems to do most well.

I’d like to be able to shoot 62eldvt to 88s, and don’t really care if the bullet is If The case a little bit.

 

[wyosam]

I dont quite understand freebore enough to know the answer. Id like to shoot 80-88s in mine. Someone else that ordered one can chime in

Mine was .104 FB originally. That worked ok for longer bullets (I shoot mostly 80.5 and 85.5 Bergers in that one). They were at a reasonable seating depth from the beginning, I followed wear until the bearing surface got to the neck shoulder junction and haven’t changed seating depth sinse. Don’t remember numbers as I’ve had that barrel for a looong time. Out of curiosity I tried to measure how far I am from the lands and the 85gr Berger fell out of the case before it reached . Still shoots great, think it’s around 5-6k now.


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[Gstew1930]

Mine was .104 FB originally. That worked ok for longer bullets (I shoot mostly 80.5 and 85.5 Bergers in that one). They were at a reasonable seating depth from the beginning, I followed wear until the bearing surface got to the neck shoulder junction and haven’t changed seating depth sinse. Don’t remember numbers as I’ve had that barrel for a looong time. Out of curiosity I tried to measure how far I am from the lands and the 85gr Berger fell out of the case before it reached . Still shoots great, think it’s around 5-6k now.


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This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. Jumping the 77s won't hurt anything

 

[RockAndSage]

@Lawnboi @Jmedin @Gstew1930 @TradLife406 @RockAndSage @Schmitty @HuntHarder

See information on 223AI reamer above.

What freebore consensus?

Whatever you guys think is most advisable, I don't really have an opinion other than to say I'll likely be doing an AI'd AR barrel too, and would like to keep my loads uniform for AR mag length, shooting 77gr TMKs.

 

[hereinaz]

Mine was .104 FB originally. That worked ok for longer bullets (I shoot mostly 80.5 and 85.5 Bergers in that one). They were at a reasonable seating depth from the beginning, I followed wear until the bearing surface got to the neck shoulder junction and haven’t changed seating depth sinse. Don’t remember numbers as I’ve had that barrel for a looong time. Out of curiosity I tried to measure how far I am from the lands and the 85gr Berger fell out of the case before it reached . Still shoots great, think it’s around 5-6k now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Overall, I think the standard freebore seems good.

Can load the bullets and eventually you will keep pushing the throat back. And, still shoot good.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. Jumping the 77s won't hurt anything

Yes, as @Lawnboi said, the throat is a good compromise.

 

[wind gypsy]

Overall, I think the standard freebore seems good.

Can load the bullets and eventually you will keep pushing the throat back. And, still shoot good.


Yes, as @Lawnboi said, the throat is a good compromise.

This is more along the lines of what I was thinking. Jumping the 77s won't hurt anything

You wont have to jump 77s, they have a long bearing surface. Wylde freebore is still a bit short of "ideal" for 77 smk/tmk. Closer to being ideal with 75 ELDm which is a short bearing surface bullet. 62 thou freebore works, but i'd take more like 100 thou if that was an option for someone looking to shoot 75-85.5s. I'd want quite a bit more than 100 thou for 88s. 62 ELD-vt and 75 ELDs is pretty money in the wylde throat. Longer bearing surface pills would be nice to be seat out a bit more. That said, i've had mediocre results with chambers that have had been throated separately. Sample size of only 3 barrels but none of em were particularly impressive. So i'd take a 62 thou throat from a reamer spec'd that way over a chamber with 62 thou reamer lengthened to 100 thou off that limited experience.

In a 223 wylde chamber with about 1k rounds on it, these bullets are seated about 20 thou off jam.

80 ELDm


77 TMK

\

 

[Gstew1930]

I can just have mine throated out if yall wanna keep the standard throat. I won't shoot anything under 80 grains out of mine. The shorter throat kinda takes away the point of a 7 twist ackley for me

 

[Lawnboi]

I could live with .100 as well. Mines going to mainly be a prairie dog plinker and backup deer gun.

 

[hereinaz]

I can just have mine throated out if yall wanna keep the standard throat. I won't shoot anything under 80 grains out of mine. The shorter throat kinda takes away the point of a 7 twist ackley for me

Yes, fast twist for longer bullets. What throat do you want? Does .100

I could live with .100 as well. Mines going to mainly be a prairie dog plinker and backup deer gun.

You are showing bullets deeper than I was thinking. I think most are going to be using the 75+ grain bullets, so .100 at a minimum makes some sense. I think maybe even 120 like the Creedmoor?

Jump is not a a problem, but neutering a cartridge with short throat is.

 

[Lawnboi]

Yes, fast twist for longer bullets. What throat do you want? Does .100


You are showing bullets deeper than I was thinking. I think most are going to be using the 75+ grain bullets, so .100 at a minimum makes some sense. I think maybe even 120 like the Creedmoor?

Jump is not a a problem, but neutering a cartridge with short throat is.

.062 is about perfect for a 75eld
.100 will probably be great for all around 75-80
I’m not sure I would want .120, that would start to limit bullets to 80+ grainers only, which is cool but not the most practical for a 223 case and short barrel imo.

22 creed is just a different animal aimed at 80 plus grain bullets from the start.

I’m not convinced the bullet being at the neck shoulder really matters all that much. It’s something to shoot for but on a 22 cal I am playing with bullets till I find what it likes; they just seem to be pickier when it comes to bullets it seems.

 

[RockAndSage]

Yes, fast twist for longer bullets. What throat do you want? Does .100


You are showing bullets deeper than I was thinking. I think most are going to be using the 75+ grain bullets, so .100 at a minimum makes some sense. I think maybe even 120 like the Creedmoor?

Jump is not a a problem, but neutering a cartridge with short throat is.

I'll probably be burning through a case or two of normal .223 55gr in practice with this, before handloading for it. Does a longer throat cause any problem with that?

 

[Lawnboi]

I'll probably be burning through a case or two of normal .223 55gr in practice with this, before handloading for it. Does a longer throat cause any problem with that?

This might be another potential problem to a longer freebore. Still have to fire form. I’ll make whatever work only because I know I’ll be100% hand loading and can just jam them.

 

[RockAndSage]

This might be another potential problem to a longer freebore. Still have to fire form. I’ll make whatever work only because I know I’ll be100% hand loading and can just jam them.

Yeah...this might be a complication. My intent with this barrel is to have a hotter .223 to shoot 77 TMKs, not have a slow .22 Creed lobbing 88s or something.

 

[Gstew1930]

Yes, fast twist for longer bullets. What throat do you want? Does .100


You are showing bullets deeper than I was thinking. I think most are going to be using the 75+ grain bullets, so .100 at a minimum makes some sense. I think maybe even 120 like the Creedmoor?

Jump is not a a problem, but neutering a cartridge with short throat is.

Ill take 100. 120 would be ideal. I think people think jumping bullets is a bigger deal than it actually is.

I'll probably be burning through a case or two of normal .223 55gr in practice with this, before handloading for it. Does a longer throat cause any problem with that?

I plan to fire form the same way. Won't be an issue

 

[Gstew1930]

Yeah...this might be a complication. My intent with this barrel is to have a hotter .223 to shoot 77 TMKs, not have a slow .22 Creed lobbing 88s or something.

.100 or 120 is more ideal for 77s

 

[RockAndSage]

.100 or 120 is more ideal for 77s

Even when fire-forming with .55gr? I don't need it to be ultra-precision with the 55gr, but a big issue is making sure I can stick with COAL needed for ARs with no detriment.

Also, sincere question, coming from a place of ignorance...Weatherby apparently had really long freebore to decrease pressure. If long freebore isn't an accuracy problem, why doesn't everyone do it?

 

[hereinaz]

I'll probably be burning through a case or two of normal .223 55gr in practice with this, before handloading for it. Does a longer throat cause any problem with that?

The beauty of the Ackley Improved is that the datum line in the same point on a .223 shoulder, so it is load and go. It will chamber and fire any ammo.

The jump should not be an issue. As throat wear, the jump can be enormous. As in a post above, one bullet was entirely out of the case without touching the throat. That means it was floating in space after leaving the neck and before hitting the throat.

.062 is about perfect for a 75eld
.100 will probably be great for all around 75-80
I’m not sure I would want .120, that would start to limit bullets to 80+ grainers only, which is cool but not the most practical for a 223 case and short barrel imo.

22 creed is just a different animal aimed at 80 plus grain bullets from the start.

I’m not convinced the bullet being at the neck shoulder really matters all that much. It’s something to shoot for but on a 22 cal I am playing with bullets till I find what it likes; they just seem to be pickier when it comes to bullets it seems.

I would choose .100 for my personal rifle. I want accuracy from the 77-80 grain bullets. And ability to load the 88 but not plan on optimizing for them.

The lighter bullets in bulk ammo might have to jump, but any effect on accuracy are swallowed in the fact it is bulk ammo for practice.

And, it is my experience jumping doesn’t matter too much.

For reference, the SAAMI for 22 creed is .081 throat for their vermint up to 80 grain. We sell the .120 throat to load the longer bullets in the 85+ category. Accuracy is indistinguishable shooting handloads and factory 80 ELDm.

 

[RockAndSage]

The beauty of the Ackley Improved is that the datum line in the same point on a .223 shoulder, so it is load and go. It will chamber and fire any ammo.

The jump should not be an issue. As throat wear, the jump can be enormous. As in a post above, one bullet was entirely out of the case without touching the throat. That means it was floating in space after leaving the neck and before hitting the throat.



I would choose .100 for my personal rifle. I want accuracy from the 77-80 grain bullets. And ability to load the 88 but not plan on optimizing for them.

The lighter bullets in bulk ammo might have to jump, but any effect on accuracy are swallowed in the fact it is bulk ammo for practice.

And, it is my experience jumping doesn’t matter too much.

For reference, the SAAMI for 22 creed is .081 throat for their vermint up to 80 grain. We sell the .120 throat to load the longer bullets in the 85+ category. Accuracy is indistinguishable shooting handloads and factory 80 ELDm.

Thanks for explaining, my vote's for .100 then.