Debating an Upgrade from Ruger to Tikka CTR or UPR

[Bidwell]

Hi, mulling over some questions and looking for some advice. I'm a new hunter and shooter, currently have a Ruger American Gen 1 in 308. I can't really get it to shoot consistently better than 2 to 2.5 MOA. At this point, I dont see any reason to practice past 150 yards. That seems to to be my ethical limit range for deer or boar hunting so I have some buffer for error. I've started to reload though, and it has reduced my flyers to basically 0, so I can really nail that 2 - 2.5 inch zone very consistently. Been using Barnes TTSX 130 grains with Varget and TAC.

Honestly, if I could get my Ruger to shoot 1.5 moa or a touch better with 5 or 10 shot groups I'd be very happy with that and not be looking for a new rifle. If I could confidently extend my range to 3-400 yards, that would be amazing. Don't have much interest in really long range stuff right now.

Anyway, the Ruger has left me wanting something a little higher quality and dependable. I can't really tell if my accuracy is being limited by my shooting ability (this seems likely), my rifle, or my ammo. I'm thinking about reducing a variable and getting a rifle that I know will shoot well. So, I've sort of narrowed it down to a 6.5 creedmoor Tikka UPR or CTR. Got a few questions, should I just stick with my American for a while? Does this sound like my shooting ability is whats holding me back? If not I have some question about the CTR and UPR. Are the barrels the same on these rifles? Would the 24 inch version cause more poi shift when the barrel warms up, and is the stainless version worth it?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[ktm450]

I have a CTR and other Tikka models. The CTR is an absolute tack driver and I love it. That said, I would get the UPR. I think it is a real upgrade in some ways over the CTR and it was not available when I bought mine. They are heavy though. The Roughtech is a fantastic gun with a lot of features that is lighter and cheaper. I think it is also just as accurate.

 

[Bidwell]

I have a CTR and other Tikka models. The CTR is an absolute tack driver and I love it. That said, I would get the UPR. I think it is a real upgrade in some ways over the CTR and it was not available when I bought mine. They are heavy though. The Roughtech is a fantastic gun with a lot of features that is lighter and cheaper. I think it is also just as accurate.

Thanks! I've been looking at the roughtechs too. Been learning toward the upr because of the stock, I'm ok with a little heavier rifle, used to lugging around a heavy 12g shotgun. My hold up is I can't find a ss barrel in 20 inch with the upr locally. I like the idea of having a little shorter barrel and increased stiffness. I'd like to reduce poi shift when the barrel heats up, but if that's a non issue I'd live to hear that. I like ctr since it's cheaper, got the 20 inch ss barrel, and its in stock at my local store, and I can eventually get a new stock. I can't find a definitive answer, but I think the upr and ctr barrels are the same, given matching specs.

 

[Toofarsouth]

I’m no help on the tikka but I will say that I have the same gen1 American in .308 and it has been a very accurate rifle. I bought a lot of different rounds to find its favorite and here are a couple observations.

It didn’t like anything on either extreme of the grain weights offered and It absolutely hated anything with a polymer tip.

I ended up loading up on Hornady American Whitetail 165gr because my rifle loves it. Your mileage may vary.

Good Luck on your search

 

[Bidwell]

Interesting, thanks for the info! I'm in California and trying to find a monolithic reload so I'm sort of stuck with the Barnes polymer tips. Nothing else around here is in stock and even shipping projectiles is a pain. I think I can find some hammers but they're pricey.

I should pick up the 175gr Hornady Whitetails just to see if my rifle likes them. I've tried quite a few factory rounds with minimal success. Thanks again.

 

[westonadkins]

I've been kicking around picking up a UPR in 6.5 CM with the 20" barrel then just having it cerakoted since the only one available is the blued one, which I'd rather stay away from. They have the stainless 24" one too so could just pick that one up and chop it. Decisions, decisions.

Don't love that the ctr has a 0 moa rail, but the UPR has a 20 moa rail. I'd be dropping mine in a chassis, so I can sell you my UPR stock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Turkeytider]

Received a new Tikka Super Varmint in 6.5 Creedmoor a couple of weeks ago. Only shooting so far has been to zero a couple of factory loads. My regular shooting range was flooded by Debby and the long range venue has yet to reopen. The Super Varmint appears to be a very well put together rifle ( typical Tikka ). No difficulties with zeroing the loads and the rifle easily shoots sub-MOA. Hopefully can stretch her legs out to 500 soon.

 

[Bidwell]

I've been kicking around picking up a UPR in 6.5 CM with the 20" barrel then just having it cerakoted since the only one available is the blued one, which I'd rather stay away from. They have the stainless 24" one too so could just pick that one up and chop it. Decisions, decisions.

Don't love that the ctr has a 0 moa rail, but the UPR has a 20 moa rail. I'd be dropping mine in a chassis, so I can sell you my UPR stock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tough choices... yeah I'd be interested in the stock if you go the UPR route. Let me know! I like the idea of going stainless or cerakoting as well.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Here’s my 20” .308.

It shoots like this at 100.

And like this at 600.


Honestly, I haven’t found any monos it likes. Tried Barnes and Hammers. I’ll stick with the leaded options as it shoots well with those, as shown above.

Have you tried the 130 gn Barnes factory loads? Maybe those can give you a starting point for loading? Try some Fed Gold Medal Match and see if it shoots. The .308 should be fairly easy to load and shoot with good groups.

 

[Bidwell]

Nice groups! I haven't tried the Barnes factory loads, but that's a good suggestion. I'll give it a go, definitely couldn't hurt. I've read lots of people can have a hard time with monolithics. Which is frustrating cause at the end of the day I need to be able to hunt with them since I'm in CA. I really want to get to 1.5 moa with copper. I'd be content with that. But, that said it makes sense to get a baseline with lead first just to know what the rifle and myself are capable of. Probably need to step back a little and try some more factory loads. Or even load some lead rounds that are closer to the lands.

One more thing about copper, I've heard from backfire tv and Ron Spomer that if you've been shooting with lead bullets and switch to monos that the copper jacket material deposited in a barrel may cause some accuracy issues. They both saw improvements after a full clean. So I got some Bore Tech Eliminator and cleaned the rifle down to bare metal this evening. I'll head to the range tomorrow to see if there is any improvement.

I was also looking at the Sako S20. I did see a video of reviewer shooting some real nice groups with Sakos mono round. Only problem with that is I've never seen their ammo at stores and I don't think they sell just projectiles for reloading. Could be wrong though

 

[Fireflyfishing]

One more thing about copper, I've heard from backfire tv and Ron Spomer that if you've been shooting with lead bullets and switch to monos that the copper jacket material deposited in a barrel may cause some accuracy issues. They both saw improvements after a full clean. So I got some Bore Tech Eliminator and cleaned the rifle down to bare metal this evening. I'll head to the range tomorrow to see if there is any improvement.

I’ve heard this too but have not confirmed myself. The theory is sound IMO and couldn’t hurt to try. I haven’t tried Bore Tech yet as I can’t find it locally. Just make sure you use a good copper solvent. From my understanding with this needed cleaning for switching bullet types, cleaning to bare metal is necessary. You may want to look into a bore scope too.

I’m sure if I spent more time and money I could find a good mono load in my Tikka. I have no reason to do so with my leaded options. I definitely suggest the leaded options for you for practice and range time. You mentioned you may need to work on shooting positions more? If trigger time is needed, there’s no reason to burn a hole in your wallet shooting monos. If your .308 can’t shoot a 168 SMK, something is wrong.

Before you spend tons of money on ammo and loading…Have you checked your action screws? How about your scope mounting screws? Base and rings. How confident are you with the scope you are using?

 

[sdupontjr]

The switching back and forth between copper and lead had no accuracy effects on either of my tikkas, T3 lite and CTR, both in 308. I shoot 130ttsx handloads, 155 scenar handloads, fed blue box 150's from Walmart, and rem corloks 150's from Walmart and all hammer. So it may effect some depending on the bore, but didn't my 2.

 

[Bidwell]

I’ve heard this too but have not confirmed myself. The theory is sound IMO and couldn’t hurt to try. I haven’t tried Bore Tech yet as I can’t find it locally. Just make sure you use a good copper solvent. From my understanding with this needed cleaning for switching bullet types, cleaning to bare metal is necessary. You may want to look into a bore scope too.

I’m sure if I spent more time and money I could find a good mono load in my Tikka. I have no reason to do so with my leaded options. I definitely suggest the leaded options for you for practice and range time. You mentioned you may need to work on shooting positions more? If trigger time is needed, there’s no reason to burn a hole in your wallet shooting monos. If your .308 can’t shoot a 168 SMK, something is wrong.

Before you spend tons of money on ammo and loading…Have you checked your action screws? How about your scope mounting screws? Base and rings. How confident are you with the scope you are using?

Thanks for the advice! I do have a torque screwdriver and did check action screws, and all scope related screws. All seem good.

I did make some good progress today after cleaning the barrel, along with some other changes. I also seated the bullets about as far as I could based on magazine length, which was 2.8455, puts the distance from lands a smidge over .050. I also loaded some in -.003 increments from 2.8455. Much, much better results! Finally.

Targets attached are two 7 shot groups, and one 8 shot group. Two are about 1.4 and 1.5 moa, and the third is 1.7 moa but I could tell pulled the shot low and high on three of them. The center shots are my best 4 shot group to date. I also let my barrel cool more this time. Gave 2 minutes between each shot. I know I kind of changed a lot things at once which is not recommended. So I'm going to retrace my steps a bit and see how each changed effects the results. Kinda threw the kitchen sink at it today.

Even with this improvement, I agree that I should be practicing with lead more. I will try the 168 smk's!

 

[Bidwell]

The switching back and forth between copper and lead had no accuracy effects on either of my tikkas, T3 lite and CTR, both in 308. I shoot 130ttsx handloads, 155 scenar handloads, fed blue box 150's from Walmart, and rem corloks 150's from Walmart and all hammer. So it may effect some depending on the bore, but didn't my 2.

Interesting, thanks for the input. I did have a lot better groups today but I also changed my seating depth as I noted in another response. Next round I'll change my seating depth back to saami specs and see if there's any change. Still would very much like to get a tikka. Really like the stainless 20 inch ctr but not a fan of the stock, but that can alwaysbe changed. Debating if I should go with a 6.5 creedmoor or another 308. Would just be for deer and wild pig.

Any thoughts on fluted barrels? There seems to be some difference of opinion on how that can effect accuracy when the barrel heats up.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

I’m glad you’re having better luck with your rifle. Perhaps putting more rounds down the pipe will yield even better results.

Really like the stainless 20 inch ctr but not a fan of the stock, but that can alwaysbe changed

Honestly, I thought I would hate the factory stock, but it just works for me.

 

[Bidwell]

I’m glad you’re having better luck with your rifle. Perhaps putting more rounds down the pipe will yield even better results.

Honestly, I thought I would hate the factory stock, but it just works for me.

Thanks! Lots of room for improvement. Hopefully more rounds does produce some better results.

Actually the more I look at it, the stock is starting to grow on me. It's fairly light, and if it gets the job done thats all that matters to me. Thanks for the comments..

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Those CTRs are heavy as hell.

 

[sdupontjr]

Those CTRs are heavy as hell.

My CTR 20" on a diet (4-16x50 Trijicon Credo 25.5oz with UM rings, removed the CTR rail)



Weighs less that 1 lb than my T3 Lite (4-16x56 Schmidt Bender Polar T96 28.5oz, Vortex precision matched rings with Mountain tactical rail)


The CTR stock, bottom metal, and mag weight more than the T3/T3x versions. Thus saving weight. There is a thread that many have done, even myself because I have both, that compares the two. Its really closer than you would think. Unless you take a T3x superlite and put a 3-9x32 superlite scope on it.

If you did try the 130's, I know that Barnes claims to start at .050" off lands. My load is 49g varget, R-P brass, CCI-200, seated 2.825" which is more than .050" jump and shoots sub 1/2" moa in the T3 all day if I do my part. Haven't messed with them in the CTR yet. But I do know that they like to be jumped and not close to lands. Hell, even the Barnes website load data has them at 2.735". Thats seated pretty deep.


Oh and one more thing, you mention varget and TAC. TAC is supposed to gain more velocity, however its temp sensitive. I would stick with Varget if you have it.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Those CTRs are heavy as hell.

Lighter than most rifles I carry in the woods. I train, so no issues here.

 

[General RE LEE]

I've been kicking around picking up a UPR in 6.5 CM with the 20" barrel then just having it cerakoted since the only one available is the blued one, which I'd rather stay away from. They have the stainless 24" one too so could just pick that one up and chop it. Decisions, decisions.

Don't love that the ctr has a 0 moa rail, but the UPR has a 20 moa rail. I'd be dropping mine in a chassis, so I can sell you my UPR stock


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'd be interested in your UPR stock as well. I wouldn't sell it though. I had KRG Bravos and prefer the UPR stock. It's lighter, has a great vertical grip and palm swell and has better ergos for hunting IMO. My 20" barrel 6.5 CM UPR is my primary hunting rifle.