CVA optima groups - good? Bad? Ok?

[CoHiCntry]

I shot T7 for several years too... and like Harvey, I didn't swab between shots. I would shoot 3 rounds before swabbing. Yes, there was a crud ring but nothing that prevented the bullet from seating properly. You don't have time to swab between shots in a hunting scenario so I always tried to get the best results with 3 shots. Then swabbed.

I switched to real black powder a few years ago and never looked back. To me it's much better and simpler than all the stuff you have to go through to shoot T7 or other substitutes. That being said, I don't shoot inlines anymore and have a max range of 100 yards with my traditional guns.

 

[GMB54-120]

Hogwash, i shot it for years too. If using a percussion cap the crud ring was minimal but with a 209 it was so bad in every single rifle i tried you had to swab to get the sabot to load all the way down. This is starting with a bore swabbed totally free of any lube so its not that either.

My witness mark dont lie and its a well known problem with Triple7. Forcing it past the crud ring will often break the pellets causing even more problems and a potential safety hazard. Pressures can sky rocket if you crush pellets.

I switched to BH209 and never need to swab now. I can shoot for hours and everything will load fine. You will never be able to do that with Triple7 and a 209 primer.

 

[FrontierGander]

Its weird, because with #11 caps and T7/American pioneer, I always had a reverse crud ring about 4" down the MUZZLE.

 

[satchamo]

Just following up here - got some white hots and saw an immediate improvement in my groups.

Finally paired them with SSTs and this is what I got - the 3 shot string (ignore bottom - old hole I had a sticker on that fell off)

Also - if I didn’t swab between shots my gun was barely loadable with SSTs… so I’m still on team swab between every shot.

 

[CoHiCntry]

Looking good!

 

[GMB54-120]

Just following up here - got some white hots and saw an immediate improvement in my groups.

The only real problems with Whitehots is cost per shot and on average you get less velocity than Triple7 pellets. They are slightly cleaner but not a lot cleaner. When you figure in cost per shot you are getting pretty close to the cost of BH209 at its current pricing because you can get the same speed with just 80-85grV of BH209.

BlueMZ pellets are also WhiteHots. Alliant just has them dyed blue. They show up pretty cheap during the after season sales too.

One thing you can do to simulate a fouled bore without risking corrosion is pop 2-3 209 primers and run a DRY patch ONCE in your bore. Then load up for your hunt or range session. This will also help remove trace amounts of lube you may have missed. The amount of fouling just 3 209 primers leave is a lot more than you might expect.

 

[satchamo]

The only real problems with Whitehots is cost per shot and on average you get less velocity than Triple7 pellets. They are slightly cleaner but not a lot cleaner. When you figure in cost per shot you are getting pretty close to the cost of BH209 at its current pricing because you can get the same speed with just 80-85grV of BH209.

BlueMZ pellets are also WhiteHots. Alliant just has them dyed blue. They show up pretty cheap during the after season sales too.

One thing you can do to simulate a fouled bore without risking corrosion is pop 2-3 209 primers and run a DRY patch ONCE in your bore. Then load up for your hunt or range session. This will also help remove trace amounts of lube you may have missed. The amount of fouling just 3 209 primers leave is a lot more than you might expect.

I’ve been running 2 primers through it before each range session as I’ve been putting oil through my bore after my cleanings. That’s way I blow it all out before shooting.

Trust me I’d shoot BH209 but I literally cannot find it. The only thing in stock locally is pyrodex, T7, snd whitehots.

I considered doing T7 powder but didn’t want to deal with weighing out charges this year with my season so close and me bow hunting so heavy right now. Next year if I can find BH I’ll def go that route and weigh charges and what not.

But with that in mind I’m pretty damn happy with what I’m seeing from the white hots. I’m only shooting 150 yards tops this season and it’s doing that well.

Also - whitehots are $10 cheaper than T7 here but I just realized that’s because it includes 72 and not 100 like T7.

 

[GMB54-120]

Triple7 loose can be measured by volume with adequate results. Its cheap and many people are completely happy with its performance measured by volume. All you need is a spout for the bottle and a volumetric measure. You can do that for $20 plus the cost of some storage tubes to take hunting with you. At the range you can just take the bottle w/spout and a measure.

You will still have a crud ring to deal with. Ive not seen any big difference between loose T7 and T7 pellets in that regard. Pellets are actually made to mimick 100grV of Pyrodex in velocity. 100grV of T7 loose is actually faster than 100gr of any of the 50/50 pellets.

 

[Soretto]

Triple7 loose can be measured by volume with adequate results. Its cheap and many people are completely happy with its performance measured by volume. All you need is a spout for the bottle and a volumetric measure. You can do that for $20 plus the cost of some storage tubes to take hunting with you. At the range you can just take the bottle w/spout and a measure.

I'd agree. I shot loose triple 7 for years and never weighed it out. Maybe I was doing it wrong, but it didn't seem to have any negative results and was consistent enough for me. I've also had good luck with the Knight Bloodline bullets for accuracy and knockdown power. This has all been with open sights though.

One thing to note if switching to BH209. You may need the BH breech plug. I've always shot BH209 after switching to 209 primers for the optima and got that plug at the beginning, but I have an older CVA Buckhorn that will not ignite BH209 with the standard 209 breech plug.

FWIW, a coworker of mine in TN likes the 250gr Barnes expander bullets with the optima and claims they perform well out to 150yds. I have no real experience with them, but it may be worth a shot.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I’m sure it’s been said but, get Blackhorn 209 and never look back!

Itll be way more accurate and can literally shoot 20 plus round without cleaning. You’ll be much happier. Just get the 209 breech plug and read up on cleaning it after a shooting session.

I've also found max loads early shoot great. For me it’s 100 grains of blackhorn behind a 350gr no excuses sabot.

 

[satchamo]

I’m sure it’s been said but, get Blackhorn 209 and never look back!

Itll be way more accurate and can literally shoot 20 plus round without cleaning. You’ll be much happier. Just get the 209 breech plug and read up on cleaning it after a shooting session.

I've also found max loads early shoot great. For me it’s 100 grains of blackhorn behind a 350gr no excuses sabot.

Hey if you can show me where to buy it I’m all ears.. but I’d not available at all locally so I’m stuck with white hots which my results were fantastic so I’m not sure I’ll even bother changing.

 

[OXN939]

white hots were fantastic.

Dudes lose the forest for the trees so fast with blackpowder hunting it's wild. The dependability and accuracy of your first shot comes first, second, third, fourth and fifth... then you can start talking about groups, ease of reloading, barrel fouling etc. If white hots are giving you good dependable ignition with repeatable accuracy and your rifle configured exactly as you'll be hunting, stick with that. Most muzzleloader setups in the field have no business poking around much past 150 anyway.