Cutting shafts to the rest

[Zac]

Who here cuts their shafts right to the rest? I hear Gillingham and Douglas saying that your rest stears the arrow better when the point is right past the rest. Does this mean that a little adjustment goes further than usual. Also what kind of spine reactions are you seeing when you cut the shaft this short vs having a shaft that goes to the end of the shelf. Pretty much anything that short on AA tells me it will be stiff, and it appears to take a significant amount of weight in order to properly spine out again.

 

[wapitibob]

Spend a cpl days shooting with gillingham over a cpl years and you'll hear 3 different ways of doing something "the right way". That arrow point is a long way from the rest in a millisecond, 2" isn't gonna make any difference. I cut my arrows where I think they should be spine wise and trim or change point weight to tighten groups.

 

[journeyman713]

I been running arrow length about a 1/2' passed the rest, well forever.
Don't know why anyone would make an arrow any longer than it has to be.
Could add an inch to clear the shelf, but why? That extra inch would be hanging out of the quiver too, and also would put me in the next series of spines.
All and all, it's shooting great this way!

 

[Hoot]

The rest is in a fixed position, all the steering comes from nock travel. I think Tim is saying that the more arrow you have in front of the rest, the further off of your aiming point you will be if your nock travel is not exactly perfect in line with your rest.

The way that I see it though, is that regardless of whether you have 1/4" or 4" in front of the rest, the angle of error remains the same, and your arrow is going to travel in the same plane. (all other things equal of course, like dynamic spine, etc.)

There are benefits to having as short of an arrow as possible, but in my opinion, that has to do with wind drift, and drag, and has nothing to do with steering the arrow.

 

[Brendan]

I'm a 29.25" draw, and cut my arrows 27.5" Carbon to Carbon, or even less, so almost 2" less than draw length. So yes, right at the rest.

For me, it's primarily for arrow weight and keeping my dynamic spine correct (I run a 300 out of a 72# bow so shorter the better in my case with the tip weight I run). Tuning, arrow flight, steering, etc has never been an issue for me.

 

[5MilesBack]

My bow is a measured 32 7/8" draw right now and my arrows are cut to 30" carbon to carbon. So ya, mine come to right in front of my rest.

 

[ZDR]

Same here...the IW 10gr collars I use are ~1/8th in front of the rest at full draw. DL is 28.5" and arrows are 26.5"

 

[Zac]

The rest is in a fixed position, all the steering comes from nock travel. I think Tim is saying that the more arrow you have in front of the rest, the further off of your aiming point you will be if your nock travel is not exactly perfect in line with your rest.

The way that I see it though, is that regardless of whether you have 1/4" or 4" in front of the rest, the angle of error remains the same, and your arrow is going to travel in the same plane. (all other things equal of course, like dynamic spine, etc.)

There are benefits to having as short of an arrow as possible, but in my opinion, that has to do with wind drift, and drag, and has nothing to do with steering the arrow.

This makes sense

 

[nphunter]

I've always shot arrows cut to the front of the riser because I didn't like having the broadhead back by my hand at full draw. I've pretty much switched to mechanicals and the set of arrows I'm building now will be cut so that my IW collars are about 1/8" in front of the arm at full draw.

I can see a lot of benefits of a shorter arrow, less likely to hang up when walking through the brush, better durability, stiffer spine, less arrow for the fletching to catch, less wind drift due to a smaller surface area, higher FOC and better market for used arrows if you can cut arrows down shorter to use. I've always shot a 28" arrow with a 28" draw and am dropping down to 26 1/8" for my new arrows.

 

[dkime]

Who here cuts their shafts right to the rest? I hear Gillingham and Douglas saying that your rest stears the arrow better when the point is right past the rest. Does this mean that a little adjustment goes further than usual. Also what kind of spine reactions are you seeing when you cut the shaft this short vs having a shaft that goes to the end of the shelf. Pretty much anything that short on AA tells me it will be stiff, and it appears to take a significant amount of weight in order to properly spine out again.

Tim and Kyle are shooting off the charts stiff shafts when talking about this and are setting their arrows up for a very specific task, (With the exception of Tims hunting shafts, he has shown his hunting shafts are borderline weak; No idea what kyle hunts with) Manipulating shaft length in a target sense does have an impact on spine; yes. But it ultimately is going to have an more impact on crosswind performance, and more importantly torque tuning performance in this same breath. If you are trying to apply this same logic to the world of hunting it is going to have different implications. Not that it doesnt have some merit or cant be applied, it is just tough to take Tims logic here and apply to the hunting world where the newest fad is fixed position rests and goofy mounted picatinny sight mounts.

 

[Meshnasty]

I cut mine based on spine and long enough to keep the collar away from the rest. My arrows have been anywhere from 28" to 30 3/8" in the last three years. It used to bother me to have the broad head over my hand, but the way I hold my bow that isn't an issue as all my fingers are curled down not pointed straight out.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I don’t know who those people are, but I want my arrows about an inch in front of my rest. It makes no sense for me to have it any longer.

 

[Billy Goat]

I do it a lot with an outdoor target bow. Generally to run a lighter spine, or to stiffen it up as much as possible because I'm already weak. I don't worry so much with a broadhead, tho I believe there's a sweet spot for broadheads being right over the throat of your grip, or it might be 3/4-1" from my rest. Don't know, they are both generally equal with my setups.

 

[Zac]

Tim and Kyle are shooting off the charts stiff shafts when talking about this and are setting their arrows up for a very specific task, (With the exception of Tims hunting shafts, he has shown his hunting shafts are borderline weak; No idea what kyle hunts with) Manipulating shaft length in a target sense does have an impact on spine; yes. But it ultimately is going to have an more impact on crosswind performance, and more importantly torque tuning performance in this same breath. If you are trying to apply this same logic to the world of hunting it is going to have different implications. Not that it doesnt have some merit or cant be applied, it is just tough to take Tims logic here and apply to the hunting world where the newest fad is fixed position rests and goofy mounted picatinny sight mounts.

Is the trick with torque tuning to try to get your site housing close to parallel with the end of the shaft?

 

[dkime]

Is the trick with torque tuning to try to get your site housing close to parallel with the end of the shaft?

There are a ton of layers to this and most of layers are covered in voodoo in what the right combination of arrow length, sight extension length, and rest position there needs to be. There is no blueprint or science behind it right now because each shoot imparts just a tiny bit of torque on the bow; differently than the next. For most guys who are the average bowhunter I have them do the torque test at 20 yds and manipulate the sight if possible to get all 3 shafts to stay in the 5 ring of an NFAA face. I dont encourage folks to do the arrow length adjustment unless you have got a good recipe for each arrow, per your discipline, to really see the difference. The arrow tuning side of it is very very high level stuff, Most folks can achieve their results with just the dovetail.