Bump to 300 spine?

[Wrench]

I'd be pushing my shelf around and playing with nock point before I bought anything else.

If a 26gr insert and a 100gr point clean it up....you're obviously weak and can swing the broom handles.

You can also buy a single shaft in the spine you want to try and see what happens.....but I'd exhaust your current stash first since it's paid for.

 

[Jermh]

I'd be pushing my shelf around and playing with nock point before I bought anything else.

If a 26gr insert and a 100gr point clean it up....you're obviously weak and can swing the broom handles.

You can also buy a single shaft in the spine you want to try and see what happens.....but I'd exhaust your current stash first since it's paid for.

Rest is currently set where the arrow sits one full arrow width outside the string and I would rather not push it out much further than that. If I get 300's to tune at a weight I'm happy with then I'll just drop point weight in the 340's and have 2 different arrows to shoot and see what I like.

 

[GLB]

Man, I hope that 300 spine works well for you since you have some on the way. That is A LOT of spine for that poundage.

 

[Jermh]

Got off work a little early and getting a little shooting in. This is close to average with what i have been seeing. All are 340's cut to 30.75". Bare shaft in the group is 100gr point with 16gr insert. Shaft to the right is 125gr point with 75 gr insert. If the 300's show up and read "weak" then I'll know it's me. If it turns out to be something I am doing that is the problem...I've spent money on way dumber stuff than a dozen arrows. Learn my lesson and move on. Anyways, back to shooting...

Edit to add: all of this is also with limb bolts cranked out 2 full turns and not willing to back out any further than that.

 

[Jermh]

Bit of a side note but just picked up the recurve in mid-March. I haven't been this excited about a group like this at 30 in a long long time and really wish I would have gotten into trad way earlier. Little better every day, feeling confident I'll be ready come September. Gotta have fun with it.

 

[ozyclint]

That is why I am asking the question. I am just moving in the direction that the bareshafts are telling me to go. We have a 2.5" difference in draw length which has to matter. Also, how short are you cutting the 400's? Are you shooting off the shelf or an elevated rest? That could be a factor as well I would think.

Arrows are 30.25" BOP to Nock groove. shelf rest.

The point made about the centershot is very important to the issue of what spine will work.

 

[dlee56]

I should have noticed earlier since you gave your fletching details in the original post, but those 4 fletch Hybrids could easily be throwing your arrow around and making the tune look weird. I know you’ve been bareshafting to tune but have you shot a fletched arrow thru paper at all?

 

[Jermh]

I should have noticed earlier since you gave your fletching details in the original post, but those 4 fletch Hybrids could easily be throwing your arrow around and making the tune look weird. I know you’ve been bareshafting to tune but have you shot a fletched arrow thru paper at all?

Negative. I'm not really set up for shooting through paper but I'm sure I could redneck something up. What distance do you typically check tears at?

 

[Jermh]

Had a few minutes and threw something together. Hope the kid doesnt miss his coloring pages lol. 7 out of 9 arrows looked about like this. The other 2 showed nock high. Pic of my slapped together contraption for reference

 

[dlee56]

Had a few minutes and threw something together. Hope the kid doesnt miss his coloring pages lol. 7 out of 9 arrows looked about like this. The other 2 showed nock high. Pic of my slapped together contraption for reference

Did you shoot any bareshafts thru it? I’d be interested to see if they tear the same or if those fletchings are bumping you nock left like that

 

[Jermh]

Did you shoot any bareshafts thru it? I’d be interested to see if they tear the same or if those fletchings are bumping you nock left like that

I did not. Likely won't get any more arrows shot tonight but can check tomorrow. When I did my little experiment with white paint on the rest I found no paint on vanes but that doesn't mean I just missed it or something. I'll shoot a few bareshafts through paper tomorrow sometime

 

[Jermh]

Apologies for the coloring page making it difficult to see, it's what was laying around close lol. Shot 4 of each bareshaft all still at 10 ft. Examples of 2 a piece shown. The other two were consistent with what is pictured. Heavier point weight tearing more weak as expected. All show nock high but they group good for elevation at 20 so not worried about nock height for now. Got a side job to get to today so won't get to shoot again until maybe this evening

 

[Beendare]

Had a few minutes and threw something together. Hope the kid doesnt miss his coloring pages lol. 7 out of 9 arrows looked about like this. The other 2 showed nock high. Pic of my slapped together contraption for reference

I don't paper tune Stickbows- and hate to comment on this as there could be a few things going on. Seems like the good news is that whatever is going on its consistent.

You are RH, correct? This seems to indicate Stiff. Which arrow did you shoot- the 340's?

The tears could just be you are pulling away from your face plucking..... and not straight back clean release....or it could be shelf contact. does it sound like its hitting?

I would judge tune by arrow groups at 20y- Bareshafts vs fletched shafts....and not this paper tune.

 

[Undomesticated]

So if everyone shoots 340's, 300's for sub 55# bows with sub 200gr points then there isn't an arrow made that will work for someone shooting 70# with 250gr+ upfront.
I honestly don't know how everyone shoots such stiff arrows.
I use axis 5mm 400's with 300gr total upfront with a border Black Douglas recurve that is 58#@28" with 28" draw.

340's with same bow with 70# limbs and 350gr upfront.

The cleaner your release/better your form, the weaker spined arrow you can utilize.

This exact thread topic perpetually pops up on numerous online "trad" forums. The issue is always the same-needing excessively stiff arrows to tune properly, generally with a new or new-ish trad archer.

The stiff arrow becomes a "crutch." By all means, shoot what tunes, but I always advise to look at your shooting first. If you need an arrow that seems excessively stiff, it might be "you." I dropped an entire spine class by cleaning up my release.

 

[ozyclint]

Yes, it does seem like a recurring theme. I've seen it in several places.

 

[Jermh]

10-4 on the suggestions that it could be me. When I look at video I think that what I'm doing looks 'right' but no doubt it could be me, but whatever I'm doing, it is consistent. If I get to where I am getting a cleaner release and can drop spine I'll have 340's and 400's sitting here waiting for me. Appreciate everyone's input so far, it's been helpful

 

[dlee56]

I don't paper tune Stickbows- and hate to comment on this as there could be a few things going on. Seems like the good news is that whatever is going on its consistent.

You are RH, correct? This seems to indicate Stiff. Which arrow did you shoot- the 340's?

The tears could just be you are pulling away from your face plucking..... and not straight back clean release....or it could be shelf contact. does it sound like its hitting?

I would judge tune by arrow groups at 20y- Bareshafts vs fletched shafts....and not this paper tune.

Why don’t you paper tune stickbows?

 

[Undomesticated]

10-4 on the suggestions that it could be me. When I look at video I think that what I'm doing looks 'right' but no doubt it could be me, but whatever I'm doing, it is consistent. If I get to where I am getting a cleaner release and can drop spine I'll have 340's and 400's sitting here waiting for me. Appreciate everyone's input so far, it's been helpful

Yup, traditional archery is a continuing process of self-evaluation and practice. Sometimes, the hardest part is just figuring out what you are doing wrong/right. Fixing it is often relatively easy once you figure it out.

Slow-mo video is a great tool but can be difficult to decipher. For me, after working on my "hook" my shooting improved. I wasn't able to pick it up via video, it was trial and error (and pondering). By changing how I hooked (and thus getting a slightly cleaner release) I dropped a spine class.

An interesting experiment if you are shooting 3-under is to try to tune your bow shooting split-finger. I still shoot 3-under due to the benefits for aiming at hunting distances, but I can't deny that split-finger gives me a beautiful, cleaner release. When I shoot split, my bow tunes almost a whole spine class lower than with 3-under.

Aren't stick bows fun?

 

[Jermh]

Yup, traditional archery is a continuing process of self-evaluation and practice. Sometimes, the hardest part is just figuring out what you are doing wrong/right. Fixing it is often relatively easy once you figure it out.

Slow-mo video is a great tool but can be difficult to decipher. For me, after working on my "hook" my shooting improved. I wasn't able to pick it up via video, it was trial and error (and pondering). By changing how I hooked (and thus getting a slightly cleaner release) I dropped a spine class.

An interesting experiment if you are shooting 3-under is to try to tune your bow shooting split-finger. I still shoot 3-under due to the benefits for aiming at hunting distances, but I can't deny that split-finger gives me a beautiful, cleaner release. When I shoot split, my bow tunes almost a whole spine class lower than with 3-under.

Aren't stick bows fun?

Roughly the string position for my hook with as little pressure as possible on my ring finger. Something I can improve?

 

[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

1. Hook shape is important for string torque. That's not something I can assess by where you lay the string on your open fingers
2. A clean release needs to "just happen" while you're at full draw. If you are thinking about the act of releasing an arrow, it isn't going to be as clean, This is a can of worms and could spark a big ol fight on the right forum. I'm a big believer in the stuff Joel Turner teaches on triggers for shooting.
3. How loud is the shot? If it's loud, you could be getting a false weak reading (where the back of the shaft hits the riser and kicks way left)
4. Is your nock fit super tight? That can cause terrible tuning headaches.