Custom Dope chart for sfp scope

[Formidilosus]

nice explanation, and here's another for those with more boiled down simpler systems, who leave the computer at home, carry a regular rangefinder, prefer their conversion chart/computer data already installed on the turret in large easy to read single digit numbers and simplest fastest format possible, in yards that match the information the rangefinder spits out, you range 400 and dial to the 4, you range 425 and you dial to between the 4 and half way hash or smaller 4.5 number, nothing faster than this for precise elevation correction for long range hunting (which we have defined here), and therefore utilize a single rotation turret commonly referred to as a speed dial turret...'speed dial', you only need minimal amount of data, so you can boil it down and fit it on the turret in a few big fat easier to read numbers since you used logic and concluded that you don't really need to carry your gear set up for prs competition, elrh small game hunting, and the possibility that you may be in the .1% that can consistently kill past 600 yards

Is this the long range hunting forum, or normal range hunting forum? 425 yards is not “long range”. And again- where is your “.1% that can consistently kill past 600 yards” coming from? How do you get that number?

 

[Stinky Coyote]

The part of all the dial recommendations that isn't being addressed is that for a lot of guys over 50, reading the dial without glasses is a problem, especially from a shooting position. I don't dial for that reason. If I was shooting competition on a range I would have the time to go glasses on, dial, glasses off, shoot. When hunting that's too much of a complication at a time that things need to be simple. For big game hunting do what B-Renolds AK said. Keep it simple with max power of 9, 10 or maybe 12. That is plenty of magnification for big game out to 600 and beyond and will make it easier to get back on for a follow-up if needed. Use your BDC subtensions with a dope card. Zero at 200-225 yds and you will be point blank out to 250 and won't have to worry about magnification or subtensions. Carry on min magnification. If you want to shoot prairie dogs at 600 yds you might need to do something different.

I'm there bud, my scope tube decals need more attention to have bigger digits now and I'm all about the speed dial turrets for dialling as they have larger easy to read numbers and you only need a few of em past mpbr zero or as you say, the reticle is good and no glasses. Your wind references can be memorized beforehand or larger decal somewhere. Good post and good point. Going redundant with mil-dot Accupoint now but also has a speed dial so can do either, commit to either at any point. Less is more for hunting.

 

[Overdrive]

I just dial and hold right on with my nice Blue turret to ranged yardage, hold for checked wind with provided number on turret which correlates to reticle in scope, and send it! Easiest system to use. 200 yard zero.


Had many clients use my rifle at yardages they aren't use to shooting make one shot kills.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I have been hunting since childhood and am in my 50's.

Until about 10 years ago when I started dialing we always did 2 inches over 100 for my 30-06/7mm Rem Mag type cartridges. Not really MPBR, as I don't think I every really trued that data.

I learned more from F-Class and PRS on shooting than anything else in my life.

My Wyoming antelope this year was a perfect example. Shot was around 175, dialed .2 MILS up and killed him.

Had time to do that though.

We don't get many tags in New Mexico and even though I apply in other states I don't have a huge volume of experience.

I need to do another Africa trip and bring a rifle with MPBR and a rifle with a 100 yard zero and see how I feel about it at the end of the trip.

I also need to do more with reticles only.

Everything is a learning curve.

David Tubb has a video on shooting baboons in South Africa using his reticle and shooting a variety of distances.

At the time he shot that video non SAFer's could do huge depredation varmint hunting. I don't think it is the case anymore.

you're applying a system better suited to unrelated things, 2-3" high at 100 is pretty standard to get most of a mpbr zero for most cartridges and cover off majority of big game hunting with zero thoughts or other equipment or solutions, I cannot imagine dialling for a 175 yard shot, would not hamstring myself with something that could cost me an opportunity like that, inside the mpbr is when you're most likely to be on the animals radar and have the least amount of time...it's going to cost you at some point, why not remove the variables that will do that?

this whole forum seems to get lost in trying to apply all these other preps and set-ups that have entirely too much fat and complexity for the task at hand

p.s. same as you, hunting since 6-7, almost 50, have tried and applied lots but cannot take the k.i.s.s. boil it down to max simplicity minimalist approach out of my method as the less to catch you out at crunch time the better...the more inline with what you'll do on 'auto-pilot' the better, those unrelated pursuits/gear/disciplines don't carry the same weight as big game hunting and it really doesn't matter what you use as it can all be made to work

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I just dial and hold right on with my nice Blue turret to ranged yardage, hold for checked wind with provided number on turret which correlates to reticle in scope, and send it! Easiest system to use. 200 yard zero.


Had many clients use my rifle at yardages they aren't use to shooting make one shot kills.

yup, the guys developed this knew how to boil things down for task at hand, (big game hunting) and a wind system that fits most, you can do it with a plain reticle and on target reference wind system in inches quite simply as well but that may not be as easy to explain to people you hand the rifle too

 

[Rifles And More]

Is this the long range hunting forum, or normal range hunting forum? 425 yards is not “long range”. And again- where is your “.1% that can consistently kill past 600 yards” coming from? How do you get that number?

At what yardage are we allowed to participate in this forum?

 

[dirtytough]

Depends on how large the miss, if just barely, generally the second shot will be with the reticle. I’m not sure how that scenario is really tied to the general theme of dialing or holding as a default technique for a first shot?

I guess I missed the part where anyone quantified their post with first shot only. I know that most experienced shooters are going to use their reticle on the second shot whether they dialed the first shot or used the reticle. And the reason they are going to use their reticle is because it’s way faster.

My main thought about it is if you have time to dial, do it. But if you don’t you have zero chance at that animal if you don’t use a holdover.

Full disclosure this is coming from a dialer. Just this year I started using holdovers and they are way faster compared to dialing. I’ll try to test the accuracy difference once some of these drifts melt.

 

[Formidilosus]

At what yardage are we allowed to participate in this forum?

I didn’t say anything about participating. I asked a question about someone writing large responses and saying things about “long range hunting” that aren’t based in fact, and while simultaneously ignoring that it is the long range forum. It would be equivalent to me going into a “close range” forum and waxing in about how everyone is stupid for not dialing for a 120 yard shot.

 

[Formidilosus]

I guess I missed the part where anyone quantified their post with first shot only. I know that most experienced shooters are going to use their reticle on the second shot whether they dialed the first shot or used the reticle. And the reason they are going to use their reticle is because it’s way faster.

My main thought about it is if you have time to dial, do it. But if you don’t you have zero chance at that animal if you don’t use a holdover.

Full disclosure this is coming from a dialer. Just this year I started using holdovers and they are way faster compared to dialing. I’ll try to test the accuracy difference once some of these drifts melt.

I would say that’s a whole other discussion. No one asks what to do when they miss and how to deal with it even though that’s a fact of life.

 

[Rifles And More]

I didn’t say anything about participating. I asked a question about someone writing large responses and saying things about “long range hunting” that aren’t based in fact, and while simultaneously ignoring that it is the long range forum. It would be equivalent to me going into a “close range” forum and waxing in about how everyone is stupid for not dialing for a 120 yard shot.

We both know the source of the numbers - keep trying to tee it up.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Is this the long range hunting forum, or normal range hunting forum? 425 yards is not “long range”. And again- where is your “.1% that can consistently kill past 600 yards” coming from? How do you get that number?

hold it now, pretty sure it's been defined in previous discussions by anything over mpbr where elevation/wind solutions are required

AND...you and I further defined it, you yourself said that in all you've observed, and that's a bunch more than anyone else apparently, that very few can consistently kill past 600...was my 0.1% too dramatic an example to portray this?

pretty sure people understood my point...you also said 450 is where majority consistency killers stops, which leaves my comments to fill in the gap that a 'moderate amount' will be consistent from 450 to 600...and I fully agree with you btw, it's been my own personal experience and witness as well but much smaller volume of observations and experiences lol, we both understood it the same but saying it differently as usual

so what would you like us to use to explain the 600+ elrh zone percentage?

is it finally time to create another sub forum for the elrh/prs stuff? call it the 1% er's and define the 'long range hunting' forum correctly in the sticky?

 

[Overdrive]

yup, the guys developed this knew how to boil things down for task at hand, (big game hunting) and a wind system that fits most, you can do it with a plain reticle and on target reference wind system in inches quite simply as well but that may not be as easy to explain to people you hand the rifle too

I do give clients a run down of how it works before their hunt, and when I'm right there next to them I can tell them the hold and tell them which side of the reticle to hold for the wind drift. I usually adjust the turret for them and zoom magnification after they have the animal located.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Anyone who thinks they will be as accurate guessing where to aim as you continually recommend is setting themselves up for a lot of misses or wounded animals.

Most the people who are advising other methods which you claim are too complicated have actually tested their gear and their methods. I used to think similarly to you but as I continue to test myself I learn the weaknesses and refine my gear and methods.

I know you think competition doesn't help hunting but I can tell you for a fact that competing in matches such as NRL Hunter WILL make you better when that buck is standing 450 yards away and you only have 30 seconds to build a position and make one solid kill shot.

Form has the world running ffp mil etc. and yet his own comments are very few can consistently kill beyond 600, that majority consistency runs out around 450, leaving a moderate number somewhere in the middle and whatever the tiny percentage is beyond 600 is tiny enough to leave out of the equation when discussion long range hunting for the mortals. You may be a 1% er Justin, you and your kiddo just took out a couple deer at 200/300, I did the same last year with my 2 kids at 300/355/420...you with the 1% er set ups and me with the ole speed dial lean into the wind set up, you custom/handloaded sub-moa precision, me factory everything. And around and around we go. Not enough acknowledging what it really takes and that yes indeed maybe a lot of this is going well past the point of diminishing returns.

May need a 1% er forum, you won't find me anywhere near it.

the competition stuff not in this discussion, no flooding allowed, lets stay on the road (sfp scope chart thread )

 

[Justin Crossley]

Form has the world running ffp mil etc. and yet his own comments are very few can consistently kill beyond 600, that majority consistency runs out around 450, leaving a moderate number somewhere in the middle and whatever the tiny percentage is beyond 600 is tiny enough to leave out of the equation when discussion long range hunting for the mortals. You may be a 1% er Justin, you and your kiddo just took out a couple deer at 200/300, I did the same last year with my 2 kids at 300/355/420...you with the 1% er set ups and me with the ole speed dial lean into the wind set up, you custom/handloaded sub-moa precision, me factory everything. And around and around we go. Not enough acknowledging what it really takes and that yes indeed maybe a lot of this is going well past the point of diminishing returns.

May need a 1% er forum, you won't find me anywhere near it.

I'm not sure how my lightweight chassis rifles are really any different from yours. My rifles are almost all used Tikkas that have been re-barreled after the factory barrels were shot out. I own zero "custom" rifles. And, I'm about sic of the snarky "1%" comments. I'm not some elite hunter, and I don't believe I've stated that I am.

I don't like wounding animals (yes, I've made plenty of bad shots and mistakes hunting close and far), so I choose to use the most precise system I'm aware of. That system is an accurate rifle, a reliable scope that I can dial exact corrections based on current environmental conditions, a suitable bullet for the task, and sufficient support for a high percentage fatal hit. If I'm in such a rush that I need to cut corners, the best choice is passing the shot.

No, we don't need another forum.

 

[EdP]

In regards to "long range," it is what the shooter perceives to be long range due to skill level, limitations on what they can practice due to what local shooting ranges offer, and perhaps some other factors. In my mind the breakpoint is somewhere between 400 and 600 yds depending on cartridge because that is where a shooter may need to be able to dope the wind to make good shots. That's assuming a 10 mph wind at 90 degrees or worse. My .280AI drift is 7.5" at 400 yds and I am comfortable holding off a little into the wind at that distance. The drift is 18" at 600 yds and goes up exponentially with distance from there and that's dicey for me. I include drift data on my SFP dope card and I have a wind meter. The wind meter only tells me the wind where I am shooting from and there are other factors at which I am not adept. It's unlikely a shooter will get good at something they can't practice. Competition shooters get very good at doping wind but I question how many hunters that don't shoot competition do. Also, as the projectile looses energy, it seems to me the importance of placement increases just as placement becomes significantly more difficult.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

I'm not sure how my lightweight chassis rifles are really any different from yours. My rifles are almost all used Tikkas that have been re-barreled after the factory barrels were shot out. I own zero "custom" rifles. And, I'm about sic of the snarky "1%" comments. I'm not some elite hunter, and I don't believe I've stated that I am.

I don't like wounding animals (yes, I've made plenty of bad shots and mistakes hunting close and far), so I choose to use the most precise system I'm aware of. That system is an accurate rifle, a reliable scope that I can dial exact corrections based on current environmental conditions, a suitable bullet for the task, and sufficient support for a high percentage fatal hit. If I'm in such a rush that I need to cut corners, the best choice is passing the shot.

No, we don't need another forum.

Fair enough on the snark, but my snark increases due to deaf ears fallen on, and or, not admitting...or disclaiming the obvious, the actual hunting part of the long range hunting forum. People going haywire here in discussions that are 100% target this, range that, competition that...make a forum for it. Through the myriad of discussions on this forum we have defined long range hunting and then a zone beyond that which is just 'long range' or 'extended long range' where everyone can play but a very few can cross it over to hunting.

So you tell me what the answers are then on separating things and perspectiving things out most accurately for the reading public. How many people with unrealistic expectations and gear heading afield? Is this a marketing machine to sell said gear? Or is this genuine discussion forum about our obsessions? The resident authority here helped define things so we can wait for % number should we realistically use to portray those who can consistently kill past 600 vs those who will be best left to target shoot past 600? We should know these things and discuss these things in a forum section with 'hunting' in the title.

And don't take my comments on your actual hunting the wrong way, they are in no way questioning your ethics, no doubt they will be as good as anyone and no doubt you did what you could to close the gap on those animals. We had unusually warm windy November and weren't getting the opps in our blind at other spot so had to step up to fill the freezer otherwise 50-150 yards is the goal 99% of the time. Do you have kills over 600? How many? Maybe you're not in the small percentage we've identified here? My bad if so. How many kills do you have from mpbr to 600? Maybe you're just a long range hunter?

There's a truth here. I argue with a long time competitive shooter plenty in my part of world about cartridges because he hates the new 'marketed' stuff so it's mostly a fun thing to poke him about the new 6.5's but he is very clear about the distinction of the range gear and the hunting gear, and runs his single shot 30 cal to inside 350m afield but surely whips a lot of arse in disciplines to triple those distances in all his range shooting. Why aren't more people discussing these very real differences between hunting and competition gear and prep?

We've come a long ways, we have further defined this long range hunting, a final piece is to come up with a percentage number to reflect those who can, or will, consistently kill past 600. Or do we just continue to call it 'very few'? I'm ok with that...as said, we've come a long way. Or did we just now define a possible new direction in long range hunting set ups and maybe way to compete as well and there's the usual human nature resistance to change?

 

[Lawnboi]

You would catch way more flies if you didn’t type so damn much.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

out of curiousity, i searched this thread to find out who had the audacity to drag "competition" into a hunting conversation.

what i found was that, prior to this post, exactly half of the posts (6/12) that say "competition" in this thread came one member, who does not participate in competition, fundamentally objects to using competition as a way to prep for hunting, and is currently grandstanding about how ridiculous it is that competitors keep dragging competition topics into a hunting discussion.

 

[Justin Crossley]

@Stinky Coyote

I don't think anything is landing on deaf ears. I think what it comes down to is that we just disagree, and that's fine. You keep trying to separate hunting and competition, but hitting a target under stress is hitting a target under stress. We all know that practicing will make us better at something. Since I can't get unlimited tags or just go out and practice shooting animals at will, I practice by shooting competitions designed to test the same skills as in hunting situations.

If you are simply saying that a 25 lb race gun designed for PRS isn't the same as a "normal" hunting rifle, then we agree totally. On the other hand, many rifles at competitions like NRL Hunter are actual rifles that are hunted with.

Also, I have not said that you can't go out and hunt successfully with minimal gear. I am saying there are limitations to the effectiveness of minimal gear. Most people do worry about gear too much instead of learning the skills required to become an effective hunter/killer. I choose to use the gear I do because it works most effectively in my experience.

This thread was started by someone asking about a dope card for an SFP scope. Many people, including myself, have posted that we feel there is a better way. That doesn't mean you can't be an effective hunter using different methods, but I'm going to recommend what I think is best. You are free to recommend your preferred method as well. The best part is that we all get to decide for ourselves.

 

[Macintosh]

while I'm sure there are people who successfully use a dope chart that includes reticle holdovers at various scope magnifications for a 2fp scope, I feel like that has a very high potential FOR ME to add layers of error (exact magnification, holding between hashmarks, reading correct column on chart, etc) such that it likely would not consistently meet my expectations for precision at ranges where I'd want to use it. I've never tried doing it but knowing my own shortcomings, at a minimum it seems to be begging for me to read the wrong magnification column and use the wrong hold. Based on personal experience, I also think that without a reticle that's busy-enough to be very easy to get lost in, I'm not as precise with holdovers as I feel is necessary past about 350 yards.

For those advocating mpbr or a simplified turret system, what do you do past the distance where a simplified system like that works reliably? How do you arrive at that distance and the skill required to get there without practicing in a range or match setting? If someone was an experienced hunter but ASPIRED to build the skill necessary to become capable at very long range (whatever that means, regardless of how frequently it happened), what would you recommend to them as a shot process that will grow with their skill level to apply to those extremely long shots?

I'm no pro but over the dozen or so hunts where I or person I was directly with had the opportunity to take an animal past fairly close range (which to me means about 150 yards), I've never participated in a shot where I did not have time to range, check dope, get steady, dial, settle in and shoot, and I can't think of many (any? maaaaybe 1 or 2?) missed opportunities where I could realistically have taken a shot if I didn't have to check dope and dial--maybe I'm just extra sneaky, lucky, or whatever but that's my limited experience. I'm also curious what folks have experienced with hit rates on deer vital-sized targets (fur or steel) near the end of MPBR from relatively unstable positions while using a MPBR zero? I personally feel like my own unsteadiness from a fast field position combined with the built-in error of a MPBR zero is reducing my ability to reliably make a good first-round hit, so it's a system I've been hesitant to use past the range where a 100-yard zero would still have been effective. Luckily my 200, 250 and 300 yard dope for several different centerfire cartridges all happen to fall extremely close to 0.5mil increments on my simple ffp mil-dot reticle so regardless of magnification setting I've been able to instantly have a relatively precise aiming point that is burned into my memory within those distances, should I not have time to dial--but still curious what those using mpbr have experienced in this regard. I have not had much opportunity to hunt elk so my targets are deer-sized generally--a much bigger target like an elk or moose could obviously change this.